Military: Combat operations in New Orleans Begin.

[SWATJester_os]

Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans

By Joseph R. Chenelly
Times staff writer

NEW ORLEANS — Combat operations are underway on the streets “to take this city back” in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

“This place is going to look like Little Somalia,” Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard’s Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome. “We’re going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control.”

Jones said the military first needs to establish security throughout the city. Military and police officials have said there are several large areas of the city are in a full state of anarchy.

Dozens of military trucks and up-armored Humvees left the staging area just after 11 a.m. Friday, while hundreds more troops arrived at the same staging area in the city via Black Hawk and Chinook helicopters.

“We’re here to do whatever they need us to do,” Sgt. 1st Class Ron Dixon, of the Oklahoma National Guard’s 1345th Transportation Company. “We packed to stay as long as it takes.”

While some fight the insurgency in the city, other carry on with rescue and evacuation operations. Helicopters are still pulling hundreds of stranded people from rooftops of flooded homes.

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and police helicopters filled the city sky Friday morning. Most had armed soldiers manning the doors. According to Petty Officer 3rd Class Jeremy Grishamn, a spokesman for the amphibious assault ship Bataan, the vessel kept its helicopters at sea Thursday night after several military helicopters reported being shot at from the ground.

Numerous soldiers also told Army Times that they have been shot at by armed civilians in New Orleans. Spokesmen for the Joint Task Force Headquarters at the Superdome were unaware of any servicemen being wounded in the streets, although one soldier is recovering from a gunshot wound sustained during a struggle with a civilian in the dome Wednesday night.

“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”

Spc. Cliff Ferguson of the 527th Engineer Battalion pointed out that he knows there are plenty of decent people in New Orleans, but he said it is hard to stay motivated considering the circumstances.

“This is making a lot of us think about not reenlisting.” Ferguson said. “You have to think about whether it is worth risking your neck for someone who will turn around and shoot at you. We didn’t come here to fight a war. We came here to help.”

[SinistralRifleman]

This situation and the fact they are drawing man power from every available resource has me convinced more than ever that every state needs a State Guard or State Militia that cannot be Federalized and can only be used within the state's own borders.

[Mr.P]

This situation and the fact they are drawing man power from every available resource has me convinced more than ever that every state needs a State Guard or State Militia that cannot be Federalized and can only be used within the state's own borders.

I agree and disagree.

I think the guard SHOULD be able to be federalized, but it shouldn't be like it is now. Right now we use the guard as front line combat troops, which is, and never was the intended purpose of the guard. The guard, is THE GUARD. Not the army. Not even the reserves. The guard should be there for state emergencies, and in situations of national security allow to be federalized. The war in Iraq is -not- a matter of iminent national security.

What really scares me, and I even agree with Bill O'Reilly on this (which if you knew me personally, this isn't something I say often), is that it took us nearly a week to mobilize within OUR OWN COUNTRY. If the system is this slow to respond, heaven forbid we have a real security situation on our hands. I was under the assumption that with the Dept. of Homeland Security taking control of all the other spread out branches that a centralized response could have been taken. Not the case sadly.

This, of course, is no offense to our guard soldiers in every state who I'm sure if they had the proper logistical and command support would have been down their busting ass in the first day if they could.

Anyways, I get a little fired up about this because ever since we started sending a bunch of guard troops to Iraq I began to be wary of what would happen if we really required mass internal deployment. Sadly, this is one of those times I wish I wasn't right about something.


P.S.-
As to SWAT's original post:
Sadly, what you have is 1% of the population who was already the criminal element realizing their chance to take over. When you take a group of people, even Americans, and you take away everything they own, they will all act the same way. Thugs will be thugs, and this is a situation where thugs can rule. Its no different in NO right now then it was in Mogidishu. You have a small group of armed assholes who see their chance to rape and pillage people who are too tired, sick, hungry to do anything about it. The guard and police are going to take away their power, and they're going to respond in kind. For every innocent person who dies because they couldn't receive help due to these assholes shooting at rescue copters....well, hell, sadly human kind hasn't invented a punishment or torture bad enough for them.

[SinistralRifleman]

Mr. P several states already have State Militias and State Guards, Texas is one of these states. State Guards are a second tier to the National Guard and are used when the National Guard is understaffed, or deployed elsewhere. It is critical for the security of individual states that a certain amount of people always be available regardless of problems elsewhere.

The requirements for joining the state guard are lower in terms of age and health than joining the Army or National Guard...but is still comprised of people who are perfectly capable of serving. It would also attract people who want to help their own communities for disasters and local defense in time of need, but don't want to worry about long term deployments elsewhere.

[Mr.P]

Texas also has a wierd constitution and has some different abilities seperate from the federal govt. then most states do.

Regardless, its a good idea though. I think it would also be attractive to people who might not be real fond of US foreign policy, but still want to be able to defend their state/family/friends without joining a crazy Michigan style militia. Something needs to be done for sure though. The situation right now is scary at best.

[SinistralRifleman]

http://www.sgaus.org/States.htm Links to state Guard websites

[GoatChomper]

Right now we use the guard as front line combat troops, which is, and never was the intended purpose of the guard.
Not at all true.....from its inception the Guard contained artillery units, and exactly what use is an artillery piece except for combat?
What really scares me, and I even agree with Bill O'Reilly on this (which if you knew me personally, this isn't something I say often), is that it took us nearly a week to mobilize within OUR OWN COUNTRY.
The hurricane landed Tuesday, and mobilization occurred Thursday.....by no stretch is that "nearly a week".
This, of course, is no offense to our guard soldiers in every state who I'm sure if they had the proper logistical and command support would have been down their busting ass in the first day if they could.
Ever been mobilized in a Guard unit? It takes time to get personnel gathered, in-processed, equipped, and out the gate.
Anyways, I get a little fired up about this because ever since we started sending a bunch of guard troops to Iraq I began to be wary of what would happen if we really required mass internal deployment. Sadly, this is one of those times I wish I wasn't right about something.
Then you're in luck, because that's not the case.....

http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200509020719.asp

[Mr.P]

It has artillery units because its meant for the defense of our country. God forbid an enemy ever lands on our soil, but that's when we need the guard in front line service, not in some foreign quagmire. Meh....I'll stop now......I'll argue more in the morning......

[Ch33zy]

It has artillery units because its meant for the defense of our country. God forbid an enemy ever lands on our soil, but that's when we need the guard in front line service, not in some foreign quagmire. Meh....I'll stop now......I'll argue more in the morning......

We have some nice fat oceans between us and most potential invasioin sources. I'd doubt somone could hide a buildup and sneak across some oceans before we noticed and had some frontline units ready to go... Not to mention the damage the navy and airforce could put on said people crossing the oceans.

[GoatChomper]

God forbid an enemy ever lands on our soil, but that's when we need the guard in front line service, not in some foreign quagmire.
Nonsense.....Guard units provide a cost-effective ways of keeping equipment handy and personnel ready for deployment.
We have some nice fat oceans between us and most potential invasioin sources.
You do know about frogs and boiling them, right?

[Ch33zy]

I have no idea what you said, but I know it means that I'm somehow wrong. So I surrender, since there has only been one time EVER, that I've been right and you were wrong.

[marty]

Didn't the guard (under a different name...) used to be the ONLY fighting force we had? The regular army just being training cadres to be filled in?

[Mr.P]

Didn't the guard (under a different name...) used to be the ONLY fighting force we had? The regular army just being training cadres to be filled in?

Way way way back in the day, as in revolutionary war times. The guard as it is today was, then, militias. Back when your average citizen was proficient with firearms, in times of war you banded together into local militias in times of war. Militias were prevelant in most pre-20th century US wars/conflicts. Don't ask me for an exact date, but sometime before the war of 1812 we formed a true professional army and navy. This was one of the biggest shocks to the British during the war, as they were expecting the rag-tag militia army of the revolution and were greeted by a very efficient, well trained field army that was every bit as good, if not more motivated.

[StandingCow]

I have no idea what you said, but I know it means that I'm somehow wrong. So I surrender, since there has only been one time EVER, that I've been right and you were wrong.

Basically, with a frog... if you heat the water slowly to a boil, the frog wont realize its being cooked... it wont even try and jump out of the water.

As far as what this has to do with an invading force.. he will have to tell you :D

[GoatChomper]

Simple.....you base your force structure on future possibilities, not on perceived immediate needs. The fact that there are currently no hostile regimes with the capability to give us invasion worries on our doorstep doesn't mean there couldn't be in the future.

[BattleWhack]

I just don't understand what it is with people when they are faced with a difficult situation, why they start losing their goddamn minds about things. It's absoloutely horrible the way this is playing out, and my heart goes out to not only the members of ALL the armed forces in "combat operations" in southern America, but to all the people who actually need help down there, because this is just going to make helping them that much harder. Around the shop over here, the Marines are itchin' to go down there and help, a bunch of us, myself included, went to the MAG CO and formally volunteered/asked to go down there and help, but of course he politely declined.

This is really fucked up situation. If all this happens from a hurricane.. imagine what would happen if a nuclear weapon was detonated in say New York City?

[marty]

Way way way back in the day, as in revolutionary war times. The guard as it is today was, then, militias. Back when your average citizen was proficient with firearms, in times of war you banded together into local militias in times of war. Militias were prevelant in most pre-20th century US wars/conflicts. Don't ask me for an exact date, but sometime before the war of 1812 we formed a true professional army and navy. This was one of the biggest shocks to the British during the war, as they were expecting the rag-tag militia army of the revolution and were greeted by a very efficient, well trained field army that was every bit as good, if not more motivated.
The Civil War, Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II were fought using predominantly citizen-soldiers. We didn't have a large, permanent fighting force until after WW2.

[GoatChomper]

This is really fucked up situation. If all this happens from a hurricane.. imagine what would happen if a nuclear weapon was detonated in say New York City?
The cold, hard truth.....search-and-rescue would be a much less important issue.

[meifunk]

Dare I say, a non-issue?

[Mr.P]

The Civil War, Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II were fought using predominantly citizen-soldiers. We didn't have a large, permanent fighting force until after WW2.

Drafted soldiers, and citizen soldiers, are very very different things......most of the soldiers who fought in WWII were draftees.

[Army GI]

There are three types of soldiers: Combat Arms Troops, Non-Combat Arms Troops, and Medics. Be nice to the medics.


So true.

[Toastar]

So true.

too bad the germans didn't want to be too nice to my grandpa who was a medic (he's got 2 gsw and even a giant dent in his head when a german decided to bash him in the helmet with a rifle butt

[Enders]

there a source to this story?

[SWATJester_os]

BTW: Rita is now Category 5.....

On the off chance that any of you are serious about helping out: If you want to come down to Florida and stage for ASAR (Aerial Search and Rescue) operations, PM me.

Basically you're PROBABLY not getting paid, but you'd be coming to Florida, staging there to go to Texas after the hurricane hits with myself, and a few other pilots, medics, and other observers, to conduct rescue operations.

Skills we're looking for:

Pilots (Private Pilot: Rotorcraft, or greater.)
Medics (EMT 1 Certified or greater, or military 91W certified.)
Rappelmasters: (Rappell certified)
Any experience conducting medical, rescue, or winch operations.

Thanks. If interested (and serious about coming), please PM me.

[meifunk]

I'm on a B-6 standby right now. I don't know if that's familiar to all of you other military types out there, but that means I have to be ready to go within six hours until further notice.

Thanks for doing your part down there SWAT. Looks like I'll be doing mine.

[StandingCow]

I kept hoping they would ask for people to go down and help out at my base.. but I havent heard a word.

[Toastar]

there a source to this story?

theres not much to tell really, i mean, the guy hit him hard enough to dent his skull through his helmet, do you think he remembers it?

[GrosPoisson]

there a source to this story?

Sounds believable enough. On the Eastern Front, the Germans and the Soviets regularly singled out medics for rifle fire, I don't see it being suddenly more civilized just because of a different theater.

[SWATJester_os]

I'm on a B-6 standby right now. I don't know if that's familiar to all of you other military types out there, but that means I have to be ready to go within six hours until further notice.

Thanks for doing your part down there SWAT. Looks like I'll be doing mine.

Hey, you're getting paid for it. As the old sci-fi phrase goes, in this case it's literally correct: I'm just a pilot looking for a crew. I'm starting to think that we're not going to get our organization ready in time for Rita which is a shame, but I think SAR is going to be minimal there, for two reasons: one everyone is getting the fuck out because unlike New Orleans folk, they're not fucking clueless. Two, this storm is so huge, like katrina, that it will be unsafe for aircraft for some time after the storm. with 150+ miles of tropical storm force winds, it will take between 9 and 15 hours after the eye hits to clear those winds....probably another 5 to 6 beyond that to achieve safe flying conditions for any kind of rescue ops. Plus, it's too late to stage crews from south florida, which is where all the other people that I've got in this organization are, so I think we'll just have to stand down on this one. Fuck, if it gets real bad, I'll just fly over there and land at the airport, pick up the nearest LEO I can find that's willing to go, and have at it.

-edit- plus, the donor is being weird, and is not willing to pay per-diem to pilots and crew, just flight expenses. He somehow thinks that FAR part 61.113e means the emergency authorities are going to pay me.

[Mr.P]

I've got 100 hours of paid vacation/personal leave and over 300 hours of sick leave available.....I'm trained as a "delegated nurse" in the state of Ohio, I've done G/J tube feeding and can pass medications, along with first aid/CPR training. Whether or not I could get off work, well, that's a different story, but hey, you never know, I've got the leave for it.

[Army GI]

Skills we're looking for:

Pilots (Private Pilot: Rotorcraft, or greater.)
Medics (EMT 1 Certified or greater, or military 91W certified.)
Rappelmasters: (Rappell certified)
Any experience conducting medical, rescue, or winch operations.

Thanks. If interested (and serious about coming), please PM me.
Dude, c'mon.

[Army GI]

Aw, fuck I just read the part about no pay. Does it at least count as training?

If I'm gonna throw away my education, I might as well get some Army credit for it or something.

[SWATJester_os]

Well, you have to be able to get down here...If you can make it to tallahassee, it's on.

[Army GI]

screw it then, I'll donate to red cross :-/

[Mr.P]

Well, you have to be able to get down here...If you can make it to tallahassee, it's on.

Ugh......I barely sneak around 20mpg highway.....that trip would kill me.....

[Army GI]

Yeah, it'll be a stretch for me too, I drive a '95 Jeep Wrangler.

[meifunk]

Hey, you're getting paid for it.


Doesn't make a difference to me, I'd do it if I wasn't getting paid.

[SWATJester_os]

I know, god bless coasties.

[Noirceur]

there a source to this story?
Uhmm.....what kind of source would you be looking for, the dead german that hit him?