Both: XM-29 project

[Lord Kelvin]

Whatever happened to the XM-29/OICW project the US Army commissioned? The last thing I read on the world guns website was that it was suspended because of weight problems or something. Exactly what does that mean?

[GusButts]

It means that no one was really interested in it. Like most modern weapon projects.

[CT]

Like the hundreds of weapons projects before, it was an answer needing a question.

[Ch33zy]

I think the official stances was that it was too heavy, so the technologies were split into the XM8 and another X project that was essentially the grenade half of the 29. Upon technology improving and the weight issue being solved in time, they would be merged togethor later.

[gYmBaG]

yeah thats what i heard, i heard they had weight issues and were tryin to cut the weight down but never really accomplished it, next thing i hear is that they are working on the xm8 now, and i even heard something about those having troubles in iraq, dunno if they fixed it or if they are working on that now. but meanwhile we still have the recently new m16a4's to hold us till new weapons are mass produced

[Lord Kelvin]

Yeah... the XM-8 looks kinda like those phaser rifles from the later Star Trek's. Does it come with a camera gun? I've seen something like that in the trailers for Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, but I don't know how accurate that is.

[Thatguy]

There's still some hope that eventually, in one of the many phases, the XM8 and the XM25 will have been worked out enough to be finally combined into an XM29 that isn't bulky and awkward as all hell. However, with the trouble the XM8 is finding itself in, and with that contract now open to competition again, who knows what's going to happen. Only the XM25 seems to be progressing forward.

[gYmBaG]

Yeah... the XM-8 looks kinda like those phaser rifles from the later Star Trek's. Does it come with a camera gun? I've seen something like that in the trailers for Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, but I don't know how accurate that is.
i dunno, ive never heard of a camera for the xm8, but i have heard about a weapon using a camera to hold around the corner and can be shot like that, its not the xm8 though, i cant remember the exact name , i dont know when it will be released

[Skyler]

Land Warrior system had the gun mounted camera.

[Shadow]

Australia developed a sighting system so we can shoot around corners. It was tested on our F88 Austeyr, but I'm sure because it was fitted to one of our F88S-A1s (AUG-A2 with Aussie Flat top Receiver), it could be fitted to any rifle with a MILSTD 1913 rail.

Here was the first idea:

http://www.steyr-aug.com/auginuse10.jpg

Here's the latest:

http://www.specops.superhost.pl/technika/bron_strzelecka/Steyr_Mannlicher_AUG/OAVD017e.jpghttp://www.specops.superhost.pl/technika/bron_strzelecka/Steyr_Mannlicher_AUG/steyr_OAVD%20014.jpg
http://www.specops.superhost.pl/technika/bron_strzelecka/Steyr_Mannlicher_AUG/steyr_OAVD%20022.jpghttp://www.specops.superhost.pl/technika/bron_strzelecka/Steyr_Mannlicher_AUG/steyr_OAVD001.jpg
http://www.specops.superhost.pl/technika/bron_strzelecka/Steyr_Mannlicher_AUG/steyr_OAVD002.jpg

[GrosPoisson]

Second picture isn't showing up.

[Ch33zy]

It looks great for shooting around corners, but annoying for any other type of shooting.

[Shadow]

LOL yeah :)

[GrosPoisson]

Heh, that's a much more elegant solution than the MP-44s with the curved barrel attachment.

[gYmBaG]

lol yeah the one i saw in ghost recon two, cant remember what gun it was, but it was basicly a gun ment to be shot around corners, had a camera on it, and the soldier wore the screen over one eye, and it was alittle easyer to fire regularly with out having and kinked scopes :p

[Shadow]

It looks great for shooting around corners, but annoying for any other type of shooting.

lol yeah the one i saw in ghost recon two, cant remember what gun it was, but it was basicly a gun ment to be shot around corners, had a camera on it, and the soldier wore the screen over one eye, and it was alittle easyer to fire regularly with out having and kinked scopes :p

Well, if any of you actually had a look at the scope itself, notice the physical optical sight and the bendy bit are two different materials? That's because it's a DETACHABLE PIECE!

The sight's an Aimpint M68 ya geese... :rolleyes:

Silly, yanks...think that we dont think things through :rolleyes: :p :D

[gYmBaG]

lol i saw that, and was wondering why it was too different looking types of metal, anyways, yeah it comes off, but in the heat of battle, who really has time to take off a piece of a scope, and put another one on?

[Shadow]

Errr, Gymmy mate - what about AN/PVS-14 onto a flattop? Who has time to remove that? And when you're in twilight and still engaging the enemy, night vision becomes useless, and so are you going to take the time to remove that PVS-14, or keep it on and shoot snap-and-rapid without sighting systems? What you're saying comes out as though we're going to be fighting completey under heavy fire all the time, and even if we take the time to reload, we'll get killed - that isn't the case.

It's use is when you're behind cover, and taking fire, you briefly attach, engage the targets around the corner, and move on.

[gYmBaG]

well, with the AN/PVS-14 you could just wear it over an eye :p not have to worry about puting on and taking it off the weapon. also im not saying that if you reload you'll be dead. but think about this, were there are corners, there is urban terrain. and where there is urban terrain, there is alot of windows and streets and aly ways, and roof tops, plenty of places for enemies to ambush you at. id be scared just to have that on my rifle, only for the fact, if i am tryin to peek around a corner, i know my guys have me covered, but if we did come under attack from an ambush....i cant rely on just my guys to get the job done, its a team effort they would need me also. im not saying you would die, im just saying its scary

[SWATJester_os]

There was a pistol that bent around corners that I saw on tv tha tlooked cool as shit.

[Airborne506]

There was a pistol that bent around corners that I saw on tv tha tlooked cool as shit.

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/3459/corner14zs.jpg

Israeli Cornershot.

[gYmBaG]

damn that is freakin hot, is it still in the test state? or have they released it to a major military/law enforcement?

[Marf]

There was a pistol that bent around corners that I saw on tv tha tlooked cool as shit.
http://www.cornershot.com/playmovie.php that movie?
yah thats a cool system

To Topic:

I guess they skipped, both XM29(OICW) and XM8
XM8 because its ugly and i think the HK 416 has way better chances to get new military rifle
and XM29... i think was mentioned before guess military isnt interested in new guns ;)

[Josey Wales]

Here's the granddaddy of that system:
http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin04/imag0301.jpg

[StandingCow]

Last I checked they are making alot of progress towards laser weapons... beams of light.

They are getting smaller and more powerful.

[gYmBaG]

Last I checked they are making alot of progress towards laser weapons... beams of light.

They are getting smaller and more powerful.
as like weapons? i remember awhile back when they were using them as anti-missle defense, i dont know if they are still using them or let alone still working on that project

[Shadow]

START III fucked that idea over. Same as Standard SM-2ER aboard ships.

If someone with ICBMs wanted you dead, he'd launch multiples and it's all over anyway.

[Degree:N]

START III fucked that idea over. Same as Standard SM-2ER aboard ships.What are the implications of "START III" in relation to the ABL (Airborne Laser) project?

Last I checked they are making alot of progress towards laser weaponsThey would be good, pulse-laser based I'd imagine. Until it gets foggy, when you have to change back to conventional weapons due to massive beam attenuation.

[Shadow]

Just checked it out. START III was a draft and got bypassed by SORT. ABL's still in development.

[Milkman Dan]

Israeli Cornershot.
That's a pistol? Damn, that thing is HUGE! Anyone think that thing would be hard to shoot someone with?

Australia developed a sighting system so we can shoot around corners. It was tested on our F88 Austeyr, but I'm sure because it was fitted to one of our F88S-A1s (AUG-A2 with Aussie Flat top Receiver), it could be fitted to any rifle with a MILSTD 1913 rail.

Here was the first idea:
Looks like it's being transmitted. Is the picture being sent to that thing on his helmet or does he just have wandering eyes?

[Shadow]

Looks like it's being transmitted. Is the picture being sent to that thing on his helmet or does he just have wandering eyes?

Yes, It's being transmitted onto an LCD display inside his helmet. Like I said, that was the first idea, that was scrapped. We use the bender sight now :)

[Milkman Dan]

Yes, It's being transmitted onto an LCD display inside his helmet. Like I said, that was the first idea, that was scrapped. We use the bender sight now :)
Yeah, the sight seems a bit more practical for now. Maybe some day they'll be able to really minimize the image capture/transmission technology so it won't be as HUGE as that monster.

[Kamikazi_Watermelon]

Last I checked they are making alot of progress towards laser weapons... beams of light.

They are getting smaller and more powerful.
You are quite right i read an artical that states that by 2010 missle defence weapons will be equiped to Us fighter aircrafts, i beleave they was talking more along the lines of destroying missles coming at them. But could be talking about a lazer weapon.

Heres some info I found, it not eh artical i found origanly as that was on cnn and I don't know how to browse past news on that blasted site.
Lazer Weapons (http://lawofwar.org/Laser_Weapons_in_aircraft.htm)

edit: that is not a pistal, the corner shot is holding a pistal, the pistal can be removed and other types of pistal can be added to it place. The corner shot is a tool designed to be used inconjunction with standard sidearms of law enforments aswell as military.

[Shadow]

K_W: If that's the case, if lasers could kill incoming missiles to fighters, why not emulate the concept and create an airborne attack laser system to kill other planes with?

[Lord Kelvin]

Well, for one thing, missiles are designed to blow up, not to withstand attacks. Second, how would you go about killing the plane? I suppose you can go for the wings or the cockpit, or maybe even the missiles hanging on their rails, but I doubt that you can target a laser that accurately on a fast-moving aircraft. Even so, the laser has to penetrate the outer skin of the aircraft first before it can go for the more important stuff like hydraulics.

Right now lasers are nowhere near powerful enough to do any serious (or real, for that matter) damage in such short amounts of time. Maybe in the future, but then you'd also have to develop lightweight (or at least not super-heavy) power supplies for the planes to carry, and all sorts of bells and whistles to make sure that the laser doesn't overheat from use.

[Shadow]

Well, for one thing, missiles are designed to blow up, not to withstand attacks. Second, how would you go about killing the plane? I suppose you can go for the wings or the cockpit, or maybe even the missiles hanging on their rails, but I doubt that you can target a laser that accurately on a fast-moving aircraft. Even so, the laser has to penetrate the outer skin of the aircraft first before it can go for the more important stuff like hydraulics.

Right now lasers are nowhere near powerful enough to do any serious (or real, for that matter) damage in such short amounts of time. Maybe in the future, but then you'd also have to develop lightweight (or at least not super-heavy) power supplies for the planes to carry, and all sorts of bells and whistles to make sure that the laser doesn't overheat from use.

You just contradicted yourself. Missiles most commonly fly faster and more maneouvreable than a fighter and are smaller targets, ya goose. :D

[Lord Kelvin]

Yes, but missiles also fly directly towards their targets, making their paths predictable, whereas fighters can turn and afterburn and such, making their paths unpredictable. Also, a missile, more or less, has no armor on it, meaning that if you can hit it, you can blow it up quite easily; I don't know about planes, but I do know that they can take at least one hit or more in an area that isn't near the cockpit and not immediately blow up, or else they wouldn't put ejection seats in the things.

BTW, I'm just conjecturing here, feel free to correct me anytime.

[gYmBaG]

missles, yes they go to their target, but they move around, correcting their path and whatnot, its hard to hit one head on. also, missles dont explode if you hit them while they are on the plane. half the missles dont even arm till they are fired/released, to prevent them from exploding if the air craft was to land rough or just crash.

[SWATJester_os]

Airplanes are generally not armored either, they rely on their maneuverability, and the fact that much of the plane's body does not contain critical parts....a bullet through a wing may not do any damage if it doesn't hit a flight surface....a bullet through an engine is another story

[GoatChomper]

Yes, but missiles also fly directly towards their targets.....
Not necessarily. Take the AAM Phoenix used by the F-14 Tomcat.....if targeted on a bogey at extreme range, at firing the missile will climb toward the target to take advantage of thinner air and then assume a diving profile toward the target to conserve fule for maneuvering.

[Mr.P]

Not necessarily. Take the AAM Phoenix used by the F-14 Tomcat.....if targeted on a bogey at extreme range, at firing the missile will climb toward the target to take advantage of thinner air and then assume a diving profile toward the target to conserve fule for maneuvering.

Yeah...its basically a guided ballistic missile towards the end of its flight, even if you wanted to hit it a Phoenix with something, nothing flies as fast as it.

[Lord Kelvin]

Well, nothing that you'd want to fire at it anyways. For faster things, there's always ICBMs, which (I believe) can go at speeds upwards of mach 13.

[/offtopic]

But then again, if ICBMs are so fast, how come we've come up with ideas to shoot them out of the sky?

[GoatChomper]

But then again, if ICBMs are so fast, how come we've come up with ideas to shoot them out of the sky?
Ever hunted birds with a shotgun?

The problem with hitting a moving target isn't its speed, the problem is being able to deliver a blow to the right place at the right time to intercept it.

[Milkman Dan]

Well, nothing that you'd want to fire at it anyways. For faster things, there's always ICBMs, which (I believe) can go at speeds upwards of mach 13.

[/offtopic]

But then again, if ICBMs are so fast, how come we've come up with ideas to shoot them out of the sky?
I'm pretty sure we could develop a system to shoot them out of the sky with the proper equipment. With UAV's, we could easily develop drone planes that could basically criss-cross the planet in flight patterns to take out an ICBM. A program could be used to lock on to certain parts of an ICBM, depending on which type and fire a laser or whatever at them. The designation could be either decided by correlating silhouette types via computer check, or by a human's identification. They could develop some sort of gyroscope balancing system, combined with a tracking system for the laser. We've got headtracking software for people who can't use a mouse by conventional means, so we could easily create software of similar mechanics for tracking a missile.

It's really quite feasible considering modern technology.

[Kamikazi_Watermelon]

You need to remember lasers are basicly light, basicly the shot travels at the speed of light there for speed is not a facter as missles do not travel (nore aircraft for that matter) faster that the speed of light. Basicly a direct aim on such an aircraft would most likey be a direct hit as your attack is fast enouth to hit your target.
Also lasers do not use massive amounts of energy, They would use power from the engins to power the laser. (maybe this would mean slitly more powerful engins idk depends on the drine to the power)
The main problem with a laser is heat build up heat is the main problem if it gets to hot it can not fire for safety reasons. But they have been developing a way to cool lasers more effectively. There is 2 ways to cool lasers, one of witch would be building the laser in a cooled chamber, the second way i can't remember what that is but apparently they have managed to combine both ways of cooling making it possable to develop the laser more.
Laser attack strenth is all about the focus and methored used to build up the charge ie: lens and cystals, The longer the beam spends in the laser emiter bouning back and forth between lens the more power is built up in the shoot. Thus once released you'll have a highly powerful shoot. Size of the actual weapon so far is possable a problem but i think once the basic design and such has been finalized miniturization would be an easy thing.

[StandingCow]

Think in one of the fire tests it started melting...