Knock and Talk

[FaKToR]

Anyone else heard of this? There was an article in the paper about how the new police chief supports this police "tactic". Apparently police go up to houses, ask to come in (though they're trying to persuade their way in), and then once in look for signs of illegal activity that could net them a search warrant for the residence.

[Mr. Fiend]

What city/county?

Can't say too much without some more info.

[Redoubts]

I know it's a show, but they do that all the time in the Law and Order series.

[FaKToR]

Just randomly go to houses looking for crime? I don't recall that ever happening. As I understand the approach here that's what it will be.

[Redoubts]

Oh, randomly? That sounds somewhat big brotherish.

[FaKToR]

That might not be right, this is what my roomate told me. Why else the paper would chose to highlight something that's not really new though is beyond me.

[kreket]

I haven't heard of it, but I would imagine suspicion of a crime might make policemen do this kind of think more or less off the record. Perhaps that's were it's coming from?

Say, druggies hanging outside the jr. high school too often for comforts. If someone is trying to push drugs onto kids, even stupid kids, they might need an 'early warning' if they are too dumb not to be seen and too smart to be caught with the stuff on them.

[Modest Genius]

you know, researching a topic before you post it is always a good idea

[Lord Kelvin]

All I see this as is a waste of time, assuming that it's random-house-search, since the common citizen doesn't regularly commit crimes. But of course, the odd search could get lucky...

[FaKToR]

Random doesn't really seem right, maybe the concern is that their definition of a "suspicious character" is really loose.

[Army GI]

If they find something that shouldn't be going on anyway, I really wouldn't mind. But that's just me.

It's still not right though.

[kreket]

Random doesn't really seem right, maybe the concern is that their definition of a "suspicious character" is really loose.

Or maybe racial profiling, but in the racist sence?

[StandingCow]

Well, its easy enough to avoid.. if an officer asks to come in you say no I will be right out.

[Lord Kelvin]

But isn't it a law that they can't enter your house at all if you don't give them permission? After all, you're under no obligation at all to let them into your house, and they can't use that fact to label you as a "suspicious character."

[FaKToR]

The problem is that it preys upon people's ignorance or timidness to deny a police officer entrance.

[SWATJester_os]

It's also ruled inadmissable by many judges.

[GrosPoisson]

Sounds like a waste of time and something that could generate (more) resentment against police officers. Pass.

[Thorium]

sounds no different than when the cop asks if he can search your car... if you say no it is taken as probable cause to search... while your car is now consided public (so cops can look to see if you belts are on before he pulls you over) this didnt stop the practice in the past...
this "knock and talk" thing could be a problem in places that have a "disorderly house laws" (and ya the wording is "lose" and can mean many things)... as soon as the door opens and he gets a look inside sees even a mess (say the day before you clean your house)... there it is in plan sight, the law broken, cop right there, no warrant needed...

the slipery slope, takeing freedoms one step at a time...

[FloppyDisk]

But isn't it a law that they can't enter your house at all if you don't give them permission? After all, you're under no obligation at all to let them into your house, and they can't use that fact to label you as a "suspicious character."

I've had a police officer run through my house with no warrant and no permission. He told us the Baker Act (some of Florida's mental health statues) allowed him to enter residences in order to sieze persons for involuntary admission to a mental health facility.

They seized a friend of mine whom had gotten into a fight with his parents and told them he was going to kill himself.

He was a fucking asshole about it too.

[SWATJester_os]

sounds no different than when the cop asks if he can search your car... if you say no it is taken as probable cause to search... while your car is now consided public (so cops can look to see if you belts are on before he pulls you over) this didnt stop the practice in the past...
this "knock and talk" thing could be a problem in places that have a "disorderly house laws" (and ya the wording is "lose" and can mean many things)... as soon as the door opens and he gets a look inside sees even a mess (say the day before you clean your house)... there it is in plan sight, the law broken, cop right there, no warrant needed...

the slipery slope, takeing freedoms one step at a time...

Incorrect. If you say no, it is NOT probable cause to search your car.

[GoatChomper]

sounds no different than when the cop asks if he can search your car...
No, completely different. In the case of a traffic stop, the officer has propable cause (witnessing a violation) to make the stop. In this case, it's officers randomly selecting residences and asking if they can come in and then looking for probable cause.
if you say no it is taken as probable cause to search...
Dead wrong. I suggest you read the Terry case in which it was established that probable cause must exist to conduct a warrantless search, not the reverse.....that is, using a search to find probable cause.
.....while your car is now consided public.....
Wrong again.....the mere ability to look into a vehicle window does not render a closed trunk a public portion.
.....as soon as the door opens and he gets a look inside sees even a mess (say the day before you clean your house)... there it is in plan sight, the law broken, cop right there, no warrant needed...
Let's see you find us a case of an arrest for a cluttered living room.

[Dave]

It's nothing new really. Just tell them to fuck off (politely of course :p) and they can't come in to search your place. Know your rights and don't let cops bully you.

[kreket]

"Erm.. Does this have to be now? We're kinda in the middle of something here.."

[Dave]

Just tell them flat out 'no. you may not enter my house/apartment/shack'. They aren't going to arrest you for hurting their feelings.

[waisted menkey]

Well, its easy enough to avoid.. if an officer asks to come in you say no I will be right out.

that's what I was thinkin'. I probably don't know most of my rights but I imagine just about everyone knows you do not need to allow an officer of the law to come into your house. everytime I see on some TV show the cops ask to come in, and when the person says no, the cops trip, I just think to myself, why didn't the person step outside their door to speak to the cops.

I have never heard of this "knock and talk." if one is partaking in ciminal acts and is dumbshit enough to let an officer into their home to witness it they desirve whatever comes. we are completely "law obiding citizens" in the home that I live, but you can rest assured, no officer is entering this residence without a warrent unless invited/called-upon for some reason. period.

[Lord Kelvin]

You can thank all of those decisions made back in the last three or four decades for that too (Mapp v Ohio comes to mind). It was cases where the police violated peoples' privacy rights that made for the precedents that make for what we have now (and this stuff is still pretty fresh in my mind, I just learned it all spring semester last year in high school). Of course, there's also the state laws to deal with as well.

[Daywalker]

sounds no different than when the cop asks if he can search your car... if you say no it is taken as probable cause to search... while your car is now consided public (so cops can look to see if you belts are on before he pulls you over) this didnt stop the practice in the past...
this "knock and talk" thing could be a problem in places that have a "disorderly house laws" (and ya the wording is "lose" and can mean many things)... as soon as the door opens and he gets a look inside sees even a mess (say the day before you clean your house)... there it is in plan sight, the law broken, cop right there, no warrant needed...

the slipery slope, takeing freedoms one step at a time...


that plain sight stuff is bulshit, no where will you find any mention of something being in plain sight being admissible.

[SWATJester_os]

The best answer is to look up your own state code, as well as study up on your 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th amendment rights.