Here's a topic for discusssion

[FaKToR]

Are words such as fuck, ass, shit etc (I didn't say "swear words" or anything because I thought that would be sort of a loaded question) obscene? If so, why are they obscene? What does it mean to be obscene? Does context matter? Do equivalent terms have the same meaning, if not why? Is the reasoning for obscenity tautologous, i.e. are these words bad because they're bad? What can we agree on being obscene, and once we've determined that which is obscene how should we as a society and individuals respond?

This should prove to be an interesting and enlightening discussion I think.

[BS87]

i think if you make words like fuck, etc less taboo and and "bad" then alot of the young people who use them will be less tempted to simply because it's not as "bad"

[FaKToR]

So you feel people are inclined to use these words because they are perceived as being "bad"? Why do you think they are perceived as being bad?

[Mafia Leader]

They are obscene, as far as any moral standings go, but as a hardened member of the forum, and life in general, they have lost pretty much all meaning on me.
Most TV shows nowadays can get away with whatever they want, as the amount of complaints coming in from anything with a swearword in it lessens, as the grandmas and grandpas of a once pristine world die out. But that doesn't make swearing any less obscene, it just means those with high expectations of what can be shown, and what shouldn't be shown are becoming less frequent.

Furthermore, stop pushing this matter, Lucky has just spoken in #worldatwarmod about this, and the topic of banning swearing altogether due to your arguing has become a serious debate between the mods and admins. That was taken straight from the horse's mouth.

[FaKToR]

This is unrelated to that issue Mafi, I am pursuing this strictly as an intellectual matter and I hope people will respond in a mature and reasonable fashion.

In response to your post Mafi, what does it mean for something to be obscene? Is that concept a strictly subjective notion? If something is obscene what does that mean exactly?

[StandingCow]

Any words are bad because society has said they are..

Kinda like what happened to the word gay.. used to mean happy.. then it got turned into something like idiot or something else derogatory.

Fuck, shit, etc... is becomming more and more acceptable.. you hear it everywhere.

[Mafia Leader]

Obscenity is based on majority subjectivity. Whatever the public complains about most is considered obscene.

[Lord Kelvin]

It depends on the way they're used IMO. For example, using it in jest, like "You fucker! I was going to eat that!" woud be a lot less obscene than "I'm going to fuck your cunt mother up her pussy, etc."; however, it really depends on how the adult population sees it. These standards are usually quite rigid in the short term, but they become quite flexible over long-term. But the other problem here is the fact that they're bad words with varying levels of intensity; for example, "shoot" is fairly ok, better than "damn", which is not as bad as "shit", which isn't as bad as "fuck", and the list goes on. Most people judge "fuck" as one of the most intensive bad words in the English language, bar other kinds of obscenities such as "pussy", "cunt", etc..

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's usually an unsaid standard that we all adhere to. But on the vague lines, we have the FCC to direct us :p.

[FaKToR]

I found since I've started working, or at least so it seems, that the working world depends on "obscenities" to vent frustration.

[Lord Kelvin]

Yes, that's correct, but it would be indecent to use obscenities to vent your frustration if your job was being a teacher, or something similar. The use of obscenities is usually discouraged, since people are usually very influential at young ages, and learning obscenities at a young age is usually not a good thing.

[Agent Law]

I think obscenities are determined by the way they're spelled and sound. I mean, they're just synonyms. Though I do not think such words are obscene, I got booted from a class because of that.

[StandingCow]

Like with everything, there is a time and a place...

I started cursing under my breath in high school... then after HS would curse outloud.. then once I joined the AF (military does this to you) it became a second language..

Now I just use them whenever...

[Lord Kelvin]

Usually I refrain from cursing, even when everyone around me does it. Hell, I usually still don't say "Fuck" or "Shit" nowadays, just because I'm not accustomed to it.

[nojmaster]

Context also has a part to play; Abortion is a medical procedure which stops a pregnancy, not your average four letter word. Using the word to talk about that isn't obscene, but if you say to your ma after dinner: "That tasted like an abortion", thats obscene.

[marty]

Like with everything, there is a time and a place...

I started cursing under my breath in high school... then after HS would curse outloud.. then once I joined the AF (military does this to you) it became a second language..

Now I just use them whenever...
Other way around for me.

I would use them whenever during middle school

Then curse under my breath at the first half of high school

Then plain not say em at all the second half and beyond

Not absolute, mind you

[Modest Genius]

i see no problem in using them if it helps to express yourself better. its not like anyone can be shielded from them anyway

its all a subjective thing, and depends entirely upon attitudes and what people think about the connotation

[Ch33zy]

Yes, that's correct, but it would be indecent to use obscenities to vent your frustration if your job was being a teacher, or something similar. The use of obscenities is usually discouraged, since people are usually very influential at young ages, and learning obscenities at a young age is usually not a good thing.

You learn obscenities pretty fast when your a kid, since it's the taboo thing and therefore "cool". Especially if theres a TV in your house and your parents watch shows other than Barney.

[Lord Kelvin]

Haha, I actually remember watching Barney when I was a kid :p

Even though they could be used for expression, it's ultimately up to the parents to decide when they want to learn them. But even so, most people take the use of obscenities as a sign that you have no manners or class; for example, you never hear politicians or public officials swear (well, at least not very often or in front of audiences), whereas your average common criminal swears almost every chance he gets.

[Maddog]

it's ultimately up to the parents to decide when they want to learn them.
its not really up to the parents when kids learn swear words. I learned fuck in 2nd grade from the older kids on the bus. Didnt know what it ment but I knew it was bad and the 'cool' kids used it, so I wanted to. got in a shitload of trouble for saying it in school too. Actually learned almost all the swear words in elementary school from the older kids saying them. My parents sure couldn't control that.

[Modest Genius]

whereas your average common criminal swears almost every chance he gets.yes, but thats not expression, thats virtually punctuation. if its not adding to the express meaning, then theres no cause to swear

[mg23]

There are better words in the dictionary.

[Luguberos]

Speaking of dictionaries, here are some etymologies:

Ass (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=ass&searchmode=term)
Shit (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=shit&searchmode=term)
Fuck (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=fuck&searchmode=term)
Cunt (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=cunt&searchmode=term)

[Degree:N]

Speaking of dictionaries, here are some etymologies:

Ass (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=ass&searchmode=term)
Shit (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=shit&searchmode=term)
Fuck (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=fuck&searchmode=term)
Cunt (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=cunt&searchmode=term)
So maybe the song "F**k" is incorrect about the etymology of the word? Also, does anyone have a link to the song? I think the lyrics go like this:

Perhaps one of the most interesting words in the English language today, is the word "fuck". Of all the English words beginning with F, "fuck" is the single one referred to as the "f-word". It's the one magical word. Just by it's sound it can describe pain, pleasure, hate and love. "Fuck", as most of the other words in English, has arrived from Germany. "Fuck" from German's "fliechen" which mean to strike. In English, "fuck" folds into many grammatical categories. As a transital verb for instance, "John fucks Shirley". As an intransitive verb; "Shirley fucks". Its meaning is not always sexual, it can be used as an adjective such as; "John's doing all the fucking work". As part of an adverb; "Shirley talks too fucking much", as an adverb enhancing an adjective; Shirley is fucking beautiful. As a noun; "I don't give a fuck". As part of a word: "abso-fucking-lutely" or "in-fucking-credible". Or as almost every word in a sentence: "fuck the fucking fuckers!". As you must realize, there aren't many words with the versatility such as the word "fuck", as in these examples used as the following words;

- Fraud: "I got fucked"
- Trouble: "I guess I'm really fucked now"
- Dismay: "Oh, fuck it!"
- Aggresion: "Don't fuck with me, buddy!"
- Difficulty: "I don't understand this fucking question"
- Inquiry: "who the fuck was that?"
- Dissatisfaction: "I don't like what the fuck is going on here"
- Incompetence: "He's a fuck-off!"
- Dismissal: "Why don't you go outside and play hide and go fuck yourself?"

I'm sure you can think of many more examples.

With all these multipurpose applications, how can anyone be offended when you use the word?

Use this unique, flexible word more often in your daily speech. It will identify the quality of your character immediately. Say it loudly and proudly:

FUCK YOU!

[lucky644]

So maybe the song "F**k" is incorrect about the etymology of the word? Also, does anyone have a link to the song? I think the lyrics go like this:

Audio is by George Carlin.

http://funnyjunk.com/pages/history.htm

[Degree:N]

Audio is by George Carlin.

http://funnyjunk.com/pages/history.htm
Cool, thanks!

[GrosPoisson]

Nice topic for discussion. I've had some interesting conversations with my friends about this one at extremely early/late hours of the morning/night. I would say that it's almost entirely subjective, and that it's social norms that dictate what words are considered offensive.

As for obscenity in general, that's a tougher one to tackle. There are some things that all of humanity can agree is obscene, but the rest of it seems to come down to cultural differences.

Other way around for me.

I would use them whenever during middle school

Then curse under my breath at the first half of high school

Then plain not say em at all the second half and beyond

Not absolute, mind you

I'm trying to do that myself, now that I'm getting older. I kind of see myself swearing as much as I do as sort of a crutch for not being able to express myself better. Of course, that isn't to say that there are certain situations where swearing fits perfectly. Example: the fire drill at 7:15 this morning totally warranted swearing.

its not really up to the parents when kids learn swear words. I learned fuck in 2nd grade from the older kids on the bus. Didnt know what it ment but I knew it was bad and the 'cool' kids used it, so I wanted to. got in a shitload of trouble for saying it in school too. Actually learned almost all the swear words in elementary school from the older kids saying them. My parents sure couldn't control that.

Exactly. Forget television, I learned everything I know about obscenity, drugs, and sex from the public school system of the state of California. Personally, I think that adults have a hard time swallowing that. They tend to see school as this idyllic wonderland that's full of sunshine, rainbows, and puppies. Not so.