Interesting...

[FaKToR]

I saw this on 4chan:
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2005/10/20/1270701-sun.html

Conviction for child toon porn
May be a first for Canadian courts

In what is believed to be a first in Canadian courts, an Edmonton man has been convicted of importing Japanese magazines containing cartoon child pornography.

Gordon Tshun Chin, 26, pleaded guilty yesterday in provincial court to importing child porn and was given a one-year conditional sentence to be served in the community.

Judge David Tilley told the slight, bespectacled young man he would have put him behind bars, but for the fact the images were drawn and therefore did not involve the actual exploitation of real children.

Tilley was shown an exhibit containing some of the disturbing images and he ordered it forfeited to the Crown.

"Certainly this is the kind of filth which should not be available to the public," said Tilley.

Interestingly, sexually explicit comic books, even those containing child porn, are legally sold in both Japan and the United States.

Crown prosecutor Steven Bilodeau said it is the first such case in Canada he knows of and added that although so-called anime containing child porn is not very prevalent here, Canadians need to know it is illegal.

[StandingCow]

wow.. can cartoons really be considered child porn since they really have no age?

And lucky is in trouble! ;)

[FaKToR]

Yeah I don't know how you would craft such a law without being exceedingly vague.

[GrosPoisson]

wow.. can cartoons really be considered child porn since they really have no age?

I think so, if all the cracks SomethingAwful's mock-reviews of adult Japanese games makes about it are any indication.

[Lord Kelvin]

Wow, first thing I thought of when I read that was Lucky :p

But yeah, Cow has a point there, since they don't have an age, and they're (presumably) purely fictional.

[siddy]

I thought child-porn laws were to protect the rights of children. no children are being harmed, so I think lucky should be more than able to read his pr0n.

Maybe it's better to give actual pedophiles a placebo of toon-porn, rather than starve them of their fetish.

but it's not like it's THAT easy to enforce a law like that, it'll just bury it more underground.

[Agent Law]

Age in anime is also sometimes ambiguous.

[lucky644]

I can read all the porn I want :p I just cannot import/buy it :D

[Makai Goblin]

I don't see much of a thrill in this "lolicon" anime stuff, butn it's not like any real children are being exploited.

What's next? Banning "Lolita"? Banning any media that makes even a mention of a sexual crime? Banning media in which any fictional crime is commited?

[GoatChomper]

What's next? Banning "Lolita"?
Funny you should mention that.....it was indeed banned in France, where it was first published, not once but twice between 1956 and 1959.

[kreket]

I thought child-porn laws were to protect the rights of children. no children are being harmed, so I think lucky should be more than able to read his pr0n.

Maybe it's better to give actual pedophiles a placebo of toon-porn, rather than starve them of their fetish.

but it's not like it's THAT easy to enforce a law like that, it'll just bury it more underground.

Maybe the manga creates a demand rather than satisfy it?

[siddy]

Maybe the manga creates a demand rather than satisfy it?

quite possibly. the idea popped into my head as I typed it. Conversly though, pedophelia came much before hentai.

I don't pretend to know if it negatively affects people or not, but it is an interesting topic for discussion and further thought.

[SOCOM-DELTA]

Court heard police also found hundreds of pages of anime child porn downloaded from the Internet.

Defence lawyer Darcy Depoe said Chin did not know what he was doing was illegal and it was his first offence.

"This 26-year-old man is probably best described as naive," said Depoe.

Tilley placed Chin under house arrest for the first six months of the conditional sentence, fined him $150 and ordered him to perform 100 hours of community service.

Chin will also be on probation for 18 months following the sentence and must take counselling as directed.

He is also forbidden from using a computer and accessing the Internet.

The judge also ordered him to provide a sample of his DNA for the national DNA data bank in Ottawa and placed him on the sex offender registry for five years.



that's quoted from the link Faktor first posted... sounds WAY, WAY too excessive. probation for 18 months? forcing him to give a sample of his DNA, and putting him on the sex offender registry for five years? shit I was waiting for this to hit the fan. i didn't have any real problem with child molesters getting tagged like this here in the states, but at least I recognized it would lead to more insane bullshit like this.

i'm kinda split on the issue at hand. i mean, it's TECHNICALLY child pornography, but they're cartoons. he gets tagged as a sex offender for this? for trying to keep his habit to himself, rather than go out and molest little girls? come the fuck on....

[Kak]

This is rediculous, that's really all I have to say.

[Milkman Dan]

I don't see much of a thrill in this "lolicon" anime stuff, butn it's not like any real children are being exploited.

What's next? Banning "Lolita"? Banning any media that makes even a mention of a sexual crime? Banning media in which any fictional crime is commited?
I am, personally, against any kind of child porn (child being particularly preteens in my definition). Legality of cartoon child porn gives the illusion that it's acceptable. Does it make it any more right if someone is getting off on cartoon images of children being violated, raped, mutilated, etc... ? It's an incredibly sensitive subject. Lust is one of our most base instincts, and to mix it with that just seems like a dangerous combination. What stops them from being sexually aroused by real children? I just think it should be outlawed everywhere. It's disgusting, distasteful, immoral, and downright horrible.

[Psyche]

run lucky run they might find you out.


I think this is rather stupid but at the same time when there are people looking at cartoon porn it shows what our society has become =p

[Walnut]

I just don't get how they can be considered children when they have no age.

[siddy]

I just don't get how they can be considered children when they have no age.

exactly. should they consider video game killing murder then?

[Lord Kelvin]

IMO it's just a fetish; it's not a real kid, so it shouldn't even fucking count. Next thing you know, they'll start classifying furries as bestiality :rolleyes:.

[Ch33zy]

exactly. should they consider video game killing murder then?

An interesting point.

[Lord Kelvin]

Apparently Jack Thompson thinks so :rolleyes:. But that's for a different topic, if and when it comes up.

[SOCOM-DELTA]

i still think it's a load of rank crap, though. it's not like the man was mutilating people in his home, or molesting little children he invited over.

yeah, he was looking at kiddy porn. if i knew the guy personally i'd probably razz him about it and make fun of him, but ultimately he's doing no real harm. it's just one of those odd habits we sometimes [try] to keep to ourselves. unfortunately for this guy, the canadian police didn't agree with the issue of privacy.

[SWATJester_os]

Funny you should mention that.....it was indeed banned in France, where it was first published, not once but twice between 1956 and 1959.


Banned in the US too, was it not? Nabokov was controversial.

[Enders]

ok, so looking at it from time to time may be ok
but downloading hundreds of images, printing them off, and importing magazines of child porn (even drawn) will lead to no good

[Ch33zy]

yeah, he was looking at kiddy porn. i

DRAWN kiddie porn. Thats the key.

[lucky644]

The punishment was overkill, especially the 5 year sex offender thing. He didn't do anything sexual to anybody.

Judging by his name, he's likely asian (no not stereotype, but c'mon, chin?) and it's pretty common to have hentai/porn anime in asia.

Overkill.

[Lord Kelvin]

It's like shutting down anime because it's snuff :rolleyes:

[lucky644]

It's like shutting down anime because it's snuff :rolleyes:

Yeah theres a bit of hypocricy, well, a lot when it comes to laws. Not much you can do. That is until they ban all forms of media and entertainment.

[Somedude]

So, are they still going to import the stuff that's straight ahead missionary position sex between two consenting adults? Will the customs agents be reading this stuff cover to cover to make sure that it's alright?

[Modest Genius]

well, it does kinda depend what he actually had. standard anime != graphic cartoons of a fat middle aged guy raping a 3 yr old. and we dont know where in that spectrum he was.

[Walnut]

It doesn't matter where in that spectrum it was. If no real children were involved, it shouldn't be a crime.

[HarryB]

Yeah, I don't agree with any of that. I'd appeal it if he could do so.

[GoatChomper]

I think this is rather stupid but at the same time when there are people looking at cartoon porn it shows what our society has become =p
Nil novum sub sole.....you should see some of the bas-relief carvings at Tikal, some of them well over a millenium old.

[lucky644]

Nil novum sub sole.....you should see some of the bas-relief carvings at Tikal, some of them well over a millenium old.

Such as..?

[puke o'hara]

Legality of cartoon child porn gives the illusion that it's acceptable. Does it make it any more right if someone is getting off on cartoon images of children being violated, raped, mutilated, etc... ?Questions of right or wrong aside - who would cartoon child porn harm? Laws shouldn't be based on values per se, ethical or otherwise, but rather consider what the action will result in. Cartoon child porn might be very "wrong", but there's no reason to ban it like real child pornography.

[siddy]

Questions of right or wrong aside - who would cartoon child porn harm? Laws shouldn't be based on values per se, ethical or otherwise, but rather consider what the action will result in. Cartoon child porn might be very "wrong", but there's no reason to ban it like real child pornography.

that's completely it. they're making a call on ethics, it has nothing to do with someone being harmed. why don't we just roll out the anti-sodomy laws again?

[Prowl]

This is stupid on the part of the authorities. I don't think much of anime full stop, but I don't think anything fictional can be a crime. And the sex offenders register????

How about we do the same to any man over 50 who so much as looks the wrong way at a 15year old girl?

oh well, lets hope somebody overturns the ruling and rubbishes the whole premise of their case.

[Makai Goblin]

Right now, I'm reading Stephen Brust's Taltos novels. Taltos is an assassin. By the logic of that (prison) sentance I should be executed as a serial killer.

[lucky644]

At first I thought this 'drawing/depiction' law was only in Canada, today I discovered in 2003 the same law was passed in the US. I guess loli anime isn't wanted anywhere :(

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=7943

Topic being bumped due to relevent information :p

[Walnut]

That says it's for images indistinguishable from real children. That wouldn't restrict anime.

[Sibby]

As has been said many times during the course of this thread, laws should be based on threats to peoples safety and well being. No matter how distasteful it may be, illegalizing something because it's "morally incorrect" is a very presumptuous and unfair thing to do. There are a lot of things that I think are rather strange and outright wrong, but I'm not in any position to tell them how to lead their lives, as long as they don't hurt anyone and keep it to themselves.
However, I should point out that shota-con frightens and disturbs me immensly... Why? Why are yaoi-fangirls so obsessed with it? Oh... Oh God... The horror. The horror.

[lucky644]

As has been said many times during the course of this thread, laws should be based on threats to peoples safety and well being. No matter how distasteful it may be, illegalizing something because it's "morally incorrect" is a very presumptuous and unfair thing to do. There are a lot of things that I think are rather strange and outright wrong, but I'm not in any position to tell them how to lead their lives, as long as they don't hurt anyone and keep it to themselves.
However, I should point out that shota-con frightens and disturbs me immensly... Why? Why are yaoi-fangirls so obsessed with it? Oh... Oh God... The horror. The horror.

yaoi = abomination against man (pun intended)
yuri = sexy sexy abomination for men

[Sibby]

yaoi = abomination against man (pun intended)
:( I like it.

[Noirceur]

Milk meets monitor at reading the summary of that article. How can you be forced to register as a sex offender and go to counseling when you haven't actually done anything? Why would someone use the one in a billion chance of it possibly being one of the factors contributing to someone considering pedophilia as a reason for it to be illegal. This is the epitome of law attempting to legislate morality. Past that, character age in hentai can stretch over decades. The only person who knows how old that characters is, is the artist. But anyways, I would definitely go through whatever appeals process there is to go through if i were this guy. I'd like to see the face of the psychologist that gets that counseling job. He/she would laugh out loud for a good hour before taking it.
_edit_ : This reminds of some of those cases where high school kids were arrested for stories about zombie attacks.