Supreme Commander pt.2

[neko]

Ok well the Supreme Commander demo was released earlier and it's basically the spiritual sequel to Total Annihilation (made by the same guy). It's pretty sweet.

Anyways, for those of you who have gotten the demo, I post a question: how do I upgrade my commander to build Tech 2 and Tech 3 buildings?

[GusButts]

I wasn't lucky enough to get my hands on Total Annihilation.

What type of gameplay is TA and SC?

[neko]

-;547336']I wasn't lucky enough to get my hands on Total Annihilation.

What type of gameplay is TA and SC?

RTS except insane

[Makai Goblin]

Having not played total annihilation, I gotta ask:

This a RTS?
If so, how similar is it to Starcraft & warcraft3 is it? Just so I have an idea what it's like.

[GusButts]

Cool, I've seen some screenshots and I was wondering if it was anything like DoW.

=)

[ScAvenger001]

DoW's squad system has spoiled me :/ managing 5 squads of 6 troopers > managing 30 units individually.

[GusButts]

DoW's squad system has spoiled me :/ managing 5 squads of 6 troopers > managing 30 units individually.

True, DoW's system is the epitome of totally sweet.

[Moe_Rahn]

Having not played total annihilation, I gotta ask:

This a RTS?
If so, how similar is it to Starcraft & warcraft3 is it? Just so I have an idea what it's like.
You know how in Starcraft, something like 25 or 30 units is a huge fucking army?

In TA/SupCom, 25 or 30 units is the size of the group you would send in if you wanted them to like, all get killed.

[Makai Goblin]

You know how in Starcraft, something like 25 or 30 units is a huge fucking army?

In TA/SupCom, 25 or 30 units is the size of the group you would send in if you wanted them to like, all get killed.

Oh.

BTW, For me in SC, and "army" would be 40+ hydralisks backed up by mutalisks in the "gound attacking flyer" form.

Wave after wave of upgraded hydralisks rock.

[GusButts]

Zerg rush kekekekekeke ^_________^

[neko]

Some of these screenshots suck and are from early stages of the game, so just go on Gamespy and look for others.

http://media.insidegamer.nl/screenshots/public/8116/74542.jpg
http://www.above-the-garage.com/blogstuff/supreme-commander.jpg
http://www.jucaushii.ro/images/screenshots/pc/Supreme_Commander/0064.jpg
http://www.thq-games.com/resources/screenshots/large/supreme_commander_360_28.jpg
http://www.thq-games.com/resources/screenshots/large/supreme_commander_360_27.jpg
http://www.pixelkill.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/Supreme_Commander_E3-13.jpg

Try to find some pictures of the map zoomed all the way out, it's gigantic.

[Moe_Rahn]

Oh.

BTW, For me in SC, and "army" would be 40+ hydralisks backed up by mutalisks in the "gound attacking flyer" form.

Wave after wave of upgraded hydralisks rock.
Yeah. A typical late-game attack force for me in TA would be something like, just off the top of my head, 40- or 50-odd heavy tanks, generally followed by a comparable number of mobile artillery batteries and missile launchers, backed up by air support from no less than 25 or 30 heavy bombers, with equivalent fighter and gunship cover, while the enemy is being shelled by my long-range cannons and/or naval bombardments. And that would all come after I launched a couple dozen nuclear missiles at their base to test their anti-nuke defenses/nuke their base back into the stone age.

[GusButts]

I'd have seizures from all the pretty colors, neko. :(

[neko]

Yeah. A typical late-game attack force for me in TA would be something like, just off the top of my head, 40- or 50-odd heavy tanks, generally followed by a comparable number of mobile artillery batteries and missile launchers, backed up by air support from no less than 25 or 30 heavy bombers, with equivalent fighter and gunship cover, while the enemy is being shelled by my long-range cannons and/or naval bombardments. And that would all come after I launched a couple dozen nuclear missiles at their base to test their anti-nuke defenses/nuke their base back into the stone age.

The highest total unit count I've gotten up to in the demo is 211 :/ Monkeylord dominates EVERYTHING.

The total number of units moving around in this game can be 500, meaning 250 units per side (if it's 2 player) on one gigantic map.

[Moe_Rahn]

The highest total unit count I've gotten up to in the demo is 211 :/ Monkeylord dominates EVERYTHING.

The total number of units moving around in this game can be 500, meaning 250 units per side (if it's 2 player) on one gigantic map.
Whaaaa. That must be a demo limitation or some stupid thing, my roommate and I both played the beta and you could jack it all the way up to like infinity billion units.

[neko]

Whaaaa. That must be a demo limitation or some stupid thing, my roommate and I both played the beta and you could jack it all the way up to like infinity billion units.

Hm, maybe it's 500 units per side? I am not sure, I can't remember but I read a preview saying you could have some ridiculous number. But I have heard that a lot of the graphics options have been left out of the demo, so you may be right.

Here's a gamespy preview: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/supreme-commander/632026p1.html

Here's a map partially zoomed out with a nuclear explosion going off.

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/632/632026/supreme-commander-20050707115432124.jpg

[LSky]

I love how people hacked the old TA unit limit (it was like 200) and put it at 5000 or 20000. That really helped. The demo seems fine but you'll need a good comp for it. For those who haven't played TA, download it because it's worth it.

[Dashdar]

I was playing it last night. I just thought i would play for a bit and see how it was. Then I looked down at the clock on my keyboard and was OMG it's been almost 2 hours!

The Demo is great. I'm not sure if you can upgrade to the next tech level though.

I find that I'm having to drastically adjust my RTS playing style for this game. It'd been a long time since I last played TA so I am not used to the number of units needed to get jobs done.

Also, I have not seemed to identify and solid rock,paper,scissors, system when it comes to unit matchups (besides the typical anti-ait anti ground turrets)

[HarryB]

While I haven't finished upgrading yet, I think you upgrade the commander's ability to make higher tech buildings after you upgrade it's weapons.

[StandingCow]

MOved to games.

[mg23]

The computer thought he had me, until he noticed that while he was destroying all my defenses, I was massing a huge army of Tech 3 units. I charged his base and before he had a time to react, I destroyed his commander. Which in turn destroyed all my units. :(

At least I won. Destroying the commander yields the biggest explosion ever.

[Milkman Dan]

If you skirmish you can get up to T3.

Also, some of you people may be unaware, but SC contains time compression. You enable time compression by pressing the + and - buttons.

[Dashdar]

MOved to games.

Oh is that what this is for. I thought this was for the Arcade games. Maybe a little blurb below the forum name would be good.





Now back on topic. I'm going to install this demo on my work computer during lunch and give the it s try with 2 monitors :) -I assume the Demo will support that.

[StandingCow]

Oh is that what this is for. I thought this was for the Arcade games. Maybe a little blurb below the forum name would be good.

Its ok, this is all new, I expect to be moving quite a few threads. :)

[Seanobi]

Oh man, I love Total Annihilation. This game is going to cause massgasms.

[SWATJester_os]

Those screenshots are sex.


I keep thinking this is a derek smart game.

[Milkman Dan]

Now back on topic. I'm going to install this demo on my work computer during lunch and give the it s try with 2 monitors :) -I assume the Demo will support that.
The video options have a drop-down menu for "Second Adapter" so I am assuming yes.

[HarryB]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but for those who don't know, you can assign engineers and your commander to help build units from the factories to speed up production just like in TA. So if you set up two factories and assign 3 engineers to each, those factories will be spitting out units every couple of seconds instead of half a minute.

[Milkman Dan]

It just drains the shit out of your resources.

[Dashdar]

Pentium D 3.6GHz
2GB Ram
Radeon X600
2 19" LCD Monitors

This is what I have at work so I decided to give it a go. The system is not as good as mine at home, but I wanted to check out the dual monitor support.

The game was chugging, maybe b/c I was running at 1280x1024, so I only decided to take 2 screen shots....and I'm at work..............

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/Opening.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/In_Game.jpg


I think it looks good. I'm planning on getting another monitor so I'll be set.

[neko]

I guess you can't upgrade your commander to build Tech 2 and 3 buildings :/

[mg23]

You could never get him to do it in TA either. It would make sense anyways, since the commander only serves to begin production and assist where needed.

[HarryB]

Did you upgrade the commanders arms? I'm at college right now so I haven't found out if that makes a difference. IIRC, you couldn't get your commander to make Tech 2 or higher in TA.

[neko]

Yeah I upgraded everything. Oh well, it doesn't matter I guess. It just seems like I never have enough engineers.

[proudinfidel117]

It just drains the shit out of your resources.

+ATM

[Enders]

You can upgrade your commanders arms, but the resource requirement is ridiculas

It's like -1000 energy over time to upgrade to his sweeping laser arm

[neko]

You can upgrade your commanders arms, but the resource requirement is ridiculas

It's like -1000 energy over time to upgrade to his sweeping laser arm

It didn't do too bad to me. Near the end of the game I had three Tech 3 power plants with energy storage on every side of them so I was getting like +4500 of energy.

[Dashdar]

Can you only upgrade during a skirmish? I was playing last night but not a skirmish and I could not upgrade.

[Maddog]

oh man, my computer cried when i got into large fights.

[Dashdar]

oh man, my computer cried when i got into large fights.

What are you running?

[SWATJester_os]

I just preordered at eb.

[Makai Goblin]

-;547356']Zerg rush kekekekekeke ^_________^

No, not rush.

Zerg Flood! :gun:

[Maddog]

What are you running?

amd 64 x2 4200+
1gig of ram
x1600 gfx

I think part of it might be that i have to set it to run on only 1 core instead of to or else its choppy. A lot of my programs and games are like that too and im not sure why. Maybe I just need to update drivers.

[Dashdar]

amd 64 x2 4200+
1gig of ram
x1600 gfx

I think part of it might be that i have to set it to run on only 1 core instead of to or else its choppy. A lot of my programs and games are like that too and im not sure why. Maybe I just need to update drivers.

Could be.

I have an 3200 and it's ok. I have SLI cards too so that helps.

[Milkman Dan]

I really wish my 8800GTX was going to be as much of a spaceheater as everyone expected it to be. My room is so cold. :(

[Dashdar]

OMG I got destroyed

I got owned by this Demo on easy. I thought I could just set it to easy and play around with everything. WRONG! Computer jumped to tech 3 and owned my ass with ships when all I had was engineers.

One thing I miss is the warning you got when you were under attack and then being able to hit space bar and jump to it. Many times I'd move over to a unit and find them all to have been reduced to smoldering husks by some offshore boat :(

[neko]

OMG I got destroyed

I got owned by this Demo on easy. I thought I could just set it to easy and play around with everything. WRONG! Computer jumped to tech 3 and owned my ass with ships when all I had was engineers.

One thing I miss is the warning you got when you were under attack and then being able to hit space bar and jump to it. Many times I'd move over to a unit and find them all to have been reduced to smoldering husks by some offshore boat :(

Wow really? When I play against the enemy on Easy they never get past Tech 2 :/

[Dashdar]

Wow really? When I play against the enemy on Easy they never get past Tech 2 :/

That's what I thought would happen. But I did a fly over and they had tech 3 power plants and a nice shield generator. They also sent some heavy units at me. I don't know what tech all the units were, but some of them could take a pounding.

I'm going to give it another go later and see what happens. I don't think I focused on enough power generation or ground troop production.

[ScAvenger001]

That's wierd. When I play it on easy, the comp does get his buildings upgraded to l3, but he uses l1 units almost exclusively. I usally pwn his entire army with a dozen l2 gunships.

[Dashdar]

That's wierd. When I play it on easy, the comp does get his buildings upgraded to l3, but he uses l1 units almost exclusively. I usally pwn his entire army with a dozen l2 gunships.

Bah! My comp AI must have it out for me then. I may have been able to win but the Comp just screwed my economy so much with the battle ship I did not see that I quit.

I'm sure it'll be different now that I have a feel for how the upgrading works and what each building and unit looks like.

[Maddog]

i know in most rts's if i hit the delete key my structure/unit will blow up, is there something like that in SC? I can't seem to get my mass extractors to upgrade to t2 =\

[Dashdar]

i know in most rts's if i hit the delete key my structure/unit will blow up, is there something like that in SC? I can't seem to get my mass extractors to upgrade to t2 =\

You have to reclaim them then build another. I think it would be nice if you could just build the second level over them and maybe have the process be automatic. But eah..

[Maddog]

ooo.... i thought reclaiming was something to do with capturing enemy units

[Dashdar]

ooo.... i thought reclaiming was something to do with capturing enemy units

I don't know if it captures. But you can use it to get resources from the destroyed remains of destroyed things and trees and such.

[Maddog]

I don't know if it captures. But you can use it to get resources from the destroyed remains of destroyed things and trees and such.

so my destroyed navy plant off the coast can be harvested for stuff? awesome

[Dashdar]

so my destroyed navy plant off the coast can be harvested for stuff? awesome

yup

[ScAvenger001]

You have to reclaim them then build another. I think it would be nice if you could just build the second level over them and maybe have the process be automatic. But eah..

Yeah, there's a lot of automation they could have put into the game but didn't. I can think of some easy ways that loading units into carriers could be made more efficient, and it would be REALLY HANDY if units queued into things like the airbase thing (I mean c'mon, the original Homeworld could do that). Squads of some description would be nice, too.

[neko]

so my destroyed navy plant off the coast can be harvested for stuff? awesome

Same with destroyed land units, you can harvest them for stuff too. Same thing with plants. Also, you can capture enemy buildings for your own with the commander.

[Dashdar]

My student worker was playing the game during our lunch break today and he beat the skirmish in like 20min.

He mad 10 lvl1 bombers and flew them in. The computer had not built and anti-air and he just bombed the commander to death.

I told him to zoom out before the commander dies and we got to experience to huge explosion that wiped out the remainder of the enemy base, and 56 of his bombers.

[mg23]

My student worker was playing the game during our lunch break today and he beat the skirmish in like 20min.

He mad 10 lvl1 bombers and flew them in. The computer had not built and anti-air and he just bombed the commander to death.

I told him to zoom out before the commander dies and we got to experience to huge explosion that wiped out the remainder of the enemy base, and 56 of his bombers.
Beating skirmishes in that amount of time defeats the whole purpose. :(

[Gen.Patton]

You have to reclaim them then build another. I think it would be nice if you could just build the second level over them and maybe have the process be automatic. But eah..
You dont need to reclaim them, all you need to do is click them and then click the upgrade button.
Button Location (http://www.m00farmer.com/genpatton/upgradesc.jpg)

[Dashdar]

You dont need to reclaim them, all you need to do is click them and then click the upgrade button.
Button Location (http://www.m00farmer.com/genpatton/upgradesc.jpg)

humm...I don't remember seeing that, but I did not click on them much. TY!!

[ScAvenger001]

You dont need to reclaim them, all you need to do is click them and then click the upgrade button.
Button Location (http://www.m00farmer.com/genpatton/upgradesc.jpg)

I'm pretty sure that's only for things like factories and mass extractors -e- oh, and the radar station. Power plants don't upgrade (considering the T3 generator is about the size of 20 T1 generators, it would cause some problems if they did). Neither do mass fabs or turrets.

[Dashdar]

I took these screen shots so I could ass these pic to my desktop/screen saver rotation. Enjoy

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/SC_Zoom.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/SC_One_Eye.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/SC_Commander_2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/SC_Commander.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/SC_Big_Tracks.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e140/Dashdar/SC_Beam.jpg

[[Rapid-Fire]]

i ordered the game for Monday, cant wait tbh.


/me plays TA for now.

[Dashdar]

;552435']i ordered the game for Monday, cant wait tbh.


/me plays TA for now.

Oh wow I did not know it was that close to release. I guess I'll just try my luck at the ole Wal-Mart

[LSky]

The full game is pretty cool, but needs a heavy comp. It's a lot like TA but I'm missing my construction planes!

[SWATJester_os]

Yeah, US release is the 20th, UK/EU release is the 16th.

[Dashdar]

The full game is pretty cool, but needs a heavy comp. It's a lot like TA but I'm missing my construction planes!

Oh yeah those were sweet!

I think mine can run it. I've been running the Demo on high so I don't think it will change.


Yeah, US release is the 20th, UK/EU release is the 16th.

UK/EU fellas will have to let us know how it is and what is different from the demo. And I expect PICS! :)

[[Rapid-Fire]]

Oh yeah those were sweet!

I think mine can run it. I've been running the Demo on high so I don't think it will change.




UK/EU fellas will have to let us know how it is and what is different from the demo. And I expect PICS! :)

ok =D!

[LSky]

Yeah, US release is the 20th, UK/EU release is the 16th.It's already out.

[Dashdar]

It's already out.

You talk the talk but can you post pics? That would make my day.

[Gen.Patton]

Beat the UEF campaign on normal, now working on the Aeon campaign on hard. There is a mighty big diffrence in the two levels, as I'm getting attacked by forces double or triple my size. Makes for a much more exciting game.
Can't wait till they release the DX10 patch so I can see if getting a DX10 card is worth the paycheck. ;)
I'll put some videos up if anyone is interested.

[Dashdar]

Beat the UEF campaign on normal, now working on the Aeon campaign on hard. There is a mighty big diffrence in the two levels, as I'm getting attacked by forces double or triple my size. Makes for a much more exciting game.
Can't wait till they release the DX10 patch so I can see if getting a DX10 card is worth the paycheck. ;)
I'll put some videos up if anyone is interested.

I am.

Also, does it give you any kind of warning when your units are under attack? That was something I did not like from the Demo. A few times I would zoom back in to where some of my engineers were and find that they had been destroyed. :(

[LSky]

Also, does it give you any kind of warning when your units are under attack? That was something I did not like from the Demo. A few times I would zoom back in to where some of my engineers were and find that they had been destroyed. :(No warning.

You talk the talk but can you post pics? That would make my day.
Pictures are on 1280x1024, low/medium graphic settings.

Early in the game:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc1.jpg


Evil frigate starts fireing at my naval base:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc2.jpg


Bye evil frigate:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc3.jpg


Ally makes sure they won't come again:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc4.jpg


Frigate after a few fights:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc5.jpg


Repairing tanks:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc6.jpg


Construction of a bigger ship:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/lsc7.jpg


Small fleet (high quality settings):
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/LSky187/Supreme%20Commander/Lsc8.jpg

[Dashdar]

Sweet

+rep for all the great shots.

How's the AI and what side do you like?

[LSky]

Sweet

+rep for all the great shots.

How's the AI and what side do you like?
The AI seems pretty good, they found my weak spots pretty quickly, though the one I played on the screens was an easy opponent. I prefer the UEF but that's because I don't like all those weird alien shaped stuff.

[SWATJester_os]

What I want to know is will they do something like TA, and release a new unit every couple of days?

[[Rapid-Fire]]

doubt it m8, they might aswell earn money from expansion packs.


Core ftw.

[LSky]

What I want to know is will they do something like TA, and release a new unit every couple of days?The devs of TA didn't release a new unit every day. There were a few official unit packs. Most of the stuff came from websites like http://www.planetannihilation.com/. But yes, the ability to modify the game made TA very succesful. According to the promotional ad that came with the demo (exit the game and it'll show 2 ads before it shuts down) the game specially designed to be modified by 3rd parties (or something along those lines). So, I'm waiting for the big fansites to release stuff.

A few links:
www.scfansite.com/
www.supremecommanderhq.com/
www.supcomuniverse.com/

Edit: The game is officially released as of now.

[fork]

*NOTE i have not played the demo but have only looked at screens and trailers and what not* alright the idea of sci fi/future/lasers/walky things dont appeal to me, i think that the idea of huge maps is awsome. i would really like to see a WW2 to modern war game with huge maps like this. then your really could perfrom raids behind enemy lines and your commandos could b all, getting up in the enemy's grill and then you could have the arnold commando, for some extra coin of course, and then when he raids the enemy camp his weapon could b an elephant knife and he throws it and then his little quip is "stick around..." whoaaaa.... that sounds like a kick ass game...

[HarryB]

Gorbachev, tear down this wall of text!

[vecdran]

Been playing the demo way too much :(

The computer is cake on any difficulty but hard. On hard, the computer is lame and just rushes for long range arty and then shells your base.

Wish I had a better computer, I have to run it on absolute minimum settings to get any sort of playable FPS.

[HarryB]

If I play with everyone on low, it runs great, so I should be ok.

Wtf is with battleships decimating everything? Fuck, I started a skirmish and built two battleships to keep the computer busy while my MonkeyLords got across the land bridges. Apparently it didn't matter, since they immediately started shooting at the computer's commander and destroyed it before a ML got out of my main base.

[vecdran]

The computer is very stupid and gets it's commander killed very quickly.

Also, the demo map is way too small, makes it impossible to guard the commander against long range arty. In a full size map you'll have lines of defense that people will have to chew through before they can start shooting the commander.

[mg23]

The computer is very stupid and gets it's commander killed very quickly.

Also, the demo map is way too small, makes it impossible to guard the commander against long range arty. In a full size map you'll have lines of defense that people will have to chew through before they can start shooting the commander.
I hope dragon's teeth will be upgradeable. I remember creating fortresses in TA and just waiting for the computer to run into my line of artillery fire as they struggled to get through all the defensive walls.

[vecdran]

Yeah, sad that won't fly in player games. I remember getting cockblocked by the computer with walls, so I just carpetbombed them.

[Glock23]

playing this game with dual monitors makes me wet my pants


holy shit it's awesome

[mg23]

Supreme Commander reviewed (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/supremecommander/index.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=topten&tag=topten;all;title;2) at Gamespot.

I feel like they were pretty hard on the game, but that's generally what I've come to expect from GS. Anyone who has the full game care to comment on the review? Is it worth more than it received?

[vecdran]

Hrm, a glowing review that wasn't in the nines? Weird.

Yes the game does murder your PC. I only skirmish with a max of 4 opponents on maps no bigger than 10k. Any larger and by 30 minutes the sheer number of units slows the game speed to a crawl.

It's a phenomenal game with a great single player campaign, I cannot wait for when I get my new PC later this year and run it on max settings without any lag :P

[Glock23]

It's really really fun. I haven't delved into the campaign much yet, but I plan to once I don't have constant access to the internets.

[HarryB]

The only point in which the game really starts to slow for me is when I've uncovered most of the map and there are a shit load of dots on my radar.

[Dashdar]

I plan to try to get it tomorrow after I get paid.

[SWATJester_os]

It plays much better when it's zoomed out all the way.

[HarryB]

Yeah, and it's actually easier to keep track of things that way as well.


I've played the Aeon for a couple of missions and I've figured this much about the game. Ships fucking own. They can park themselves a mile offshore and hit anything.

Shield generators are a life saver and radar jammers really annoy the shit out of me.

Before I can play with more than one other person though, I'm going to need to upgrade.

[Scraps]

Instead of buying Splinter Cell+Vegas I'm going to buy Vegas+SupCom

[BattleWhack]

Picked the game up today at Gamestop, I've been playing the UEF campaign, I'm in the middle of mission 2. Seems very fun, although whether it meets the legacy of TA, I just don't think it will.

My computer does fine with it until very late game with huge maps and lots of units, and then it'll sputter every now and again, but nothing unplayable. This is with most everything at medium.

[neko]

I can hardly play this game because it crashes all the time. I think it conflicts with my drivers, but I'm formatting soon so maybe that'll fix any problems. I need more RAM too. Still, the few moments that I have played were very fun. I love the island maps where you primarily need to use air and naval units. Nothing like sending hundreds of bombers to demolish the enemy.

[HarryB]

My only big complaint so far is that mobile shield generators are useless since your units aren't smart enough to stay under their bubbles.

[SWATJester_os]

That's not the best way to use them. The best way to use them is so you can layer them over your static shield gens, or group them onto assist mode for your artillery.

[Loké]

O rly? GAh, and with my computer blown up. [darth vadar] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! [/darth vadar]

[SWATJester_os]

I like the fact that you can stack shields. A group of 4 or 5 mobile shield gens stacked onto 2 or 3 static gens can shield an artillery/air defence force.

[vecdran]

For super power drain? :P

I just spread my defensive batteries out, so that if they try to take out one they've still got three more pounding them.

UEF cater to the turtle playstyle so well. I get some sort of sick enjoyment out of making impenetrable bases and then building a Mavor to shell their bases back into the Stone Age.

[SWATJester_os]

Heh, super power drain for the win. Besides, if it's that annoying, just build power generators under the shields.

[neko]

What do you mean stack shields? Put them adjacent to each other like with power generators and energy storage?

[vecdran]

What do you mean stack shields? Put them adjacent to each other like with power generators and energy storage?

Pretty much. They layer. So one gets taken out, there's still the remaining ones.

I always try to half overlap shields gens in areas that take huge beatings. Computer doesn't seem to know to go around my defensive lines of doom :P

[Dashdar]

I picked up the game this weekend and I like it a lot. I'm just starting to experiment with shields but they are sweet.

So far I have only been the Aeon, because I heard they were more defensive, but I'd like to try the UEF too.

[vecdran]

Aeon more defensive? nononon

UEF are the turtlers, with a lot of their units using defensive shielding. Not to mention one of their experimental units is the most devastating artillery piece in the game (perfect for impenetrable fortress assholes like me. I don't even have to build an offensive force really :P).

Aeon are the most single minded. Big, slow hits is the name of their game. All of their units do one job and they do it well. They hit the hardest per shot, and have lots of hover units for flexibility.

Cybran are the hit and run guys, they punch you in the side of the head from the place you least expected it. Lots of stealth units, with a larger margin of speed, at the expense of survivability and hitting power. However, the stealth kind of loses it's effectiveness with regards to assault relatively quickly, when your opponents upgrades to Tech 3 radar installations and gains omni sensors.

My analysis of the sides :P

As far as choosing a side for multiplay though, I'd got with what PCG said. In the end, choose the side with the experimental units you like the most, because in the end all of the non-elite units perform the same job within pretty close margins. The differences are mostly cosmetic, and differences that aren't won't drastically alter your game.

[Dashdar]

I'll have to give the UEF a try this week if I have time.

I knew the Cybran were stealth and I have never liked the hit and fun idea. I've always been a big defense person. I am always a pain to kill if someone gets the upper hand on me.

[Scraps]

The Mavor made me cum.

[CaptCommy]

Yeah, Vecdran pretty much nailed it when he said the only real difference is in what experimental you want. There are minor differences, like the Aeon get Tier 1 hovertanks which are great for harassment, or how the Cybran Amphibious tanks go underwater rather than over it, making them totally ninja. Also, look into the Commander Upgrades, because those are different for each side as well, and while I don't really use them, I know some people love them, so it's something to think about.

Also, god damn I love the Cybran. Yeah, omni sensors are a bitch, but I just love their look the best. Stealth T3 bombers are also totally sexy. Plus the Monkeylord is one of the best experimentals IMO. Great weaponry against everything that's not artillery, stealth, amphibious, and really pretty fast to build compared to all the others. Maybe if I get bored or if one of you really want it, I can type up this mini-guide I've been working on. Basically I've found the best way to take out every experimental there is. It's not really groundbreaking stuff, but it's helped out a few people I know.

[Ch33zy]

Stupid question time. Whats the point of connecting your power generators and mines to different buildings? Ive noticed that power gens next to a mine cut the mines power down a whole... one. What about connecting storage silos to their corresponding pant? Any purpose? And connecting generators to factories?

[Scraps]

Yeah, Vecdran pretty much nailed it when he said the only real difference is in what experimental you want. There are minor differences, like the Aeon get Tier 1 hovertanks which are great for harassment, or how the Cybran Amphibious tanks go underwater rather than over it, making them totally ninja. Also, look into the Commander Upgrades, because those are different for each side as well, and while I don't really use them, I know some people love them, so it's something to think about.

Also, god damn I love the Cybran. Yeah, omni sensors are a bitch, but I just love their look the best. Stealth T3 bombers are also totally sexy. Plus the Monkeylord is one of the best experimentals IMO. Great weaponry against everything that's not artillery, stealth, amphibious, and really pretty fast to build compared to all the others. Maybe if I get bored or if one of you really want it, I can type up this mini-guide I've been working on. Basically I've found the best way to take out every experimental there is. It's not really groundbreaking stuff, but it's helped out a few people I know.
I'll read it

[Dashdar]

Stupid question time. Whats the point of connecting your power generators and mines to different buildings? Ive noticed that power gens next to a mine cut the mines power down a whole... one. What about connecting storage silos to their corresponding pant? Any purpose? And connecting generators to factories?

When you build a storage silo beside the mass extractor or power plant it will expand the total amount of energy or mass you can have.

As far as power plants near buildings.....I see the computer do it all the time But I have not done it myself.

[SWATJester_os]

Powerplant touching building = decreased energy draw for that building.
Mass touching building = decreased mass usage cost of that building.

Silos and storage have nothing to do with either, they increase your total mass/energy limits no matter what.

[Scraps]

I love spending an hour to build 1 nuke silo.

[Ch33zy]

Powerplant touching building = decreased energy draw for that building.
Mass touching building = decreased mass usage cost of that building.

Silos and storage have nothing to do with either, they increase your total mass/energy limits no matter what.


What about factories?

[proudinfidel117]

My only big complaint so far is that mobile shield generators are useless since your units aren't smart enough to stay under their bubbles.

couldnt you just have them guard the MSG and move it?

[CaptCommy]

Stupid question time. Whats the point of connecting your power generators and mines to different buildings? Ive noticed that power gens next to a mine cut the mines power down a whole... one. What about connecting storage silos to their corresponding pant? Any purpose? And connecting generators to factories?

Okay, I'll list off everything I know about adjacency crap.

Power generators next to mines means the mines take less energy.
Power storage next to power generators make the generator make more energy
Mass storage next to mine makes the mine production increase.
These bonuses are hard to see at lower levels, like you need four storages next to a tier 1 mass extractor to see a difference, but it becomes much more apparent as your mass extractor goes up in tiers. Ditto for power bonuses.

Buildings such as a shield generator next to a power plant takes less overall energy. Works for just about any building that takes power. I like doing this with mass fabricators surrounded by plants. Helps make the Omni-Radar much more realistic to use, what with the default -2000 power.

Factories next to plants works like this. Each side of the factory counts as a bonus if it's covered by power plants. So building a line of the tier 1 plants next to a factory gives it a 25% bonus. Or you could build 1 tier 3 plant that takes up the entire side of that factory, giving you that same 25% bonus. Two sides surrounded = 50%. Three = 75% and four sides gives you a 100% bonus. Next post will be how I like killing all the experimentals.

[CaptCommy]

Okay, here is my guide for how to beat experimentals, and some tips for using them as well. It's certainly not perfect or foolproof, but I think it's a good start. So, first off, Cybran, since I know them best.

Monkeylord
-----------
This is probably my favorite, or second favorite experimental in the game. Great weaponry against everything, air land and sea. The microwave laser is pure rape, good AA cannons, and torpedo tubes when it's under water. It's also perma-stealthed, which is great for sneaking up on a base. I like building a wing of bombers to attack one flank of their base, and send the monkeylord in the other way. It's won every time so far. Plus, if it's taking a serious beating, it can go hide underwater where most weapons can't kill it. The best way to take this thing down is lots and lots of arty. It's kinda slow, and really short ranged, so if you keep a good battery going, it'll fall fairly fast. Try to keep as much conventional weaponry out of range of it's microwave laser's range as long as you can. Arty arty arty.

Scathis
-------
This I haven't really used a lot, so I don't have it perfected, but here are some basic tips. Get as much power as humanly possible when this thing comes online, obviously. It'll rape your power, but it'll also rape them. Getting a constant rate of fire is really hard, but if you can, the enemy is basically screwed. Also, be aware that this thing is incredibly vunerable when firing, and has really low HP. Bombers are going to make this thing a prioirty, so I always try to keep it under a shield or two, and near a mobile stealth generator. Goes a long way towards keeping it away from enemy bombers. The best anti-scathis plan is just that, a wing of bombers. Even 10-20 tier 1 bombers can take it out in a pass or two. A good land assault will work just as well too, if you can get in close enough. Also, if you bombard his power plants, it drastically cuts down on what this thing can do, since it's power dependant.

Soul Ripper
-----------
Another great experimental if you ask me, it's got good weaponry, hp, and can hit anything except subs. Flying helps a lot too. It can't really assault on it's own, but if you group it with some conventional forces, it's an enormous boon. I always keep a wing of the Tier 3 fighters grouped on it, for extra protection, since it doesn't have the best AA weaponry in the world. The best way to take this thing down is just a lot of guns. AA turrets can put a huge dent in it, as can fighters. It's weakness is that it doesn't excell at anything, and it doesn't have THAT much HP in comparison to some of the others. Just keep shooting it with as much AA as you can muster.

Kay, next post I'll do another race.

[CaptCommy]

Aeon time, since I have a pretty good grasp of their experimentals

Czar
----
This thing is a really interesting unit. The massive cannon will kill just about anything under it in one hit, which is just pure fun. It's got some decent lasers and such for killing other stuff, but nothing amazing. It can hold quite a few airplanes (Don't know the limit yet), which is also amazingly evil. The refuling is a great boon to a prolonged air siege. Keep it parked outside their base while your bombers run amok is a great first strike that it can follow with it's massive laser. It's biggest weaknesses is that it doesn't have a ton of HP, similar to the Soul Ripper. Get a lot of concentrated AA and fighters and it'll go down. However, this can also lead to a REALLY mean strategy. Just send this giant flying disc on a suicide mission over their main base. When it goes down, anything it crashes into pretty much dies instantly, which can take out quite a big chunk of their base. Plus it's fun as HELL to watch. Give it a try some time.

Tempest
--------
This one I haven't had as much time as I would like to play around with, but on a sea map, it's quite an evil bastard. Six torpedo tubes can take out pretty much any other naval unit right quick. I like building it and an escort of subs, and sneak semi-close to their base. Then you surface, build as many ships as you'd like (Destroyers and Cruisers are a good choice for bombardment and anti-AA), and then shell away. It's back mounted cannon can do a crap ton of damage but it has a sorta slow fire rate. Also, if you get in a lot of crap, submerge and run away. A good, balanced unit. The best plan to take it out is a good wing of torpedo bombers, since it's AA is pretty weak. Send them as soon as it surfaces before it can build a sizeable escort, assuming it didn't come with one. If they did, just get a lot of subs and the like to destroy his AA, then torpedo bomb him away. Conventional weapons will also wear it down if you have the time.

Galactic Colossus
----------------
One of the meanest experimentals in the game, this thing has a LOT of weaponry, and a LOT of HP. It's chest laser is pretty much the most powerful laser in the game, and will kill anything that gets close right quick. The built in omin-sensor means you can't sneak up on this guy either. In a land siege, nothing is more powerful than this guy. However, he's not without weakness. He has absolutley NO AA, so a lot of bombers can really ruin his day. Also, he's fairly slow, so artillery is also a good choice. When using him, always keep some conventional weapons with him to act as a semi-meat shield and to make up for his lack of AA. Also, he can walk underwater, which will help hide from normal bombers and most land units. However, he can't fire his big laser underwater, just his other ones. I like using him as a big hammer, to crack any really tough bases, but never use him alone. He's at his best when you've got a wing of fighters protecting him and some Tier 3 bots to help chew up what's in the way. Also, it's not a bad idea to bring around some bombers to take out enemy arty points.

Crap, I'm out of time, but I'll be back with the UEF post later tonight. Also, I'll do a general advice section as well.

[vecdran]

Great stuff so far, agree with everything you've posted.

Unit limit on the experimental aircraft carriers is 100. I remember an extended siege I played against a guy, we were both turtled. Instead of going the typical arty route, I flew a Czar over to his base and unloaded the 100 T3 bombers inside it. They lasted long enough to take out ALL of his T3 reactors, while the Czar raped half his base, and when it died it took out another third. He was left with like...one T3 factory :P

Queue my gunship assault :P

[HarryB]

couldnt you just have them guard the MSG and move it?

The problem with that is that units told to assist or guard don't move until a second or two after the unit they're defending has moved. This will usually leave them to far back to both defend the MSG or stay under its bubble. Also, just moving the MSG to arty pieces is usually pointless as those pieces will usually form lines or move as the target is destroyed and will constantly leave the bubble.

The one thing I don't like about the Aeon is their defences. Half the time they're aoe will take out other guns. It's usually good to just run their guns and let those same guns take themselves out.

[vecdran]

Heh. Didn't think of that :P

[SWATJester_os]

Not entirely accurate.

According to the game, storage next to mines does not make production increase.

Same thing for storage next to power gen. However, the power gen automatically makes the storage cost less energy, so it would by default increase power a little bit anyway.

However, a mass fab next to a mine WOULD make production increase.

Power gens next to any building make it take less energy.

Supposedly building a mass fab, and mines next to a factory makes it use less mass, but I've never actually tried it. According to the game and strat. guide that should work though.

Okay, I'll list off everything I know about adjacency crap.

Power generators next to mines means the mines take less energy.
Power storage next to power generators make the generator make more energy
Mass storage next to mine makes the mine production increase.
These bonuses are hard to see at lower levels, like you need four storages next to a tier 1 mass extractor to see a difference, but it becomes much more apparent as your mass extractor goes up in tiers. Ditto for power bonuses.

Buildings such as a shield generator next to a power plant takes less overall energy. Works for just about any building that takes power. I like doing this with mass fabricators surrounded by plants. Helps make the Omni-Radar much more realistic to use, what with the default -2000 power.

Factories next to plants works like this. Each side of the factory counts as a bonus if it's covered by power plants. So building a line of the tier 1 plants next to a factory gives it a 25% bonus. Or you could build 1 tier 3 plant that takes up the entire side of that factory, giving you that same 25% bonus. Two sides surrounded = 50%. Three = 75% and four sides gives you a 100% bonus. Next post will be how I like killing all the experimentals.

[vecdran]

Er...I've placed energy storage silos next to big generators and they've boosted energy production.

[SWATJester_os]

Just going off what I read in the manual.

[CaptCommy]

Not entirely accurate.

According to the game, storage next to mines does not make production increase.

Same thing for storage next to power gen. However, the power gen automatically makes the storage cost less energy, so it would by default increase power a little bit anyway.

The manual never says what I said is wrong, it just neglects to mention it. But it's tried and tested d00d. Put four mass storages around a extractor, it goes from +2 to +3. Energy storage works the same way.

[CaptCommy]

Finally, my UEF post. Won't be as good as my other two since I've only played these guys a handful of times.

Fatboy
------
Mobile factory of doom. Obviously not much of a weapon to send right into the enemy base like you can with the Colossus. However, that doesn't mean it's a pushover. It's an amazing support unit to any assault however. It's got plenty of defensive weaponry so that you won't have to really concentrate on guarding it, and can push your assault foward while this thing cranks out units like mad. Works much faster than a T3 factory, even if it can't make T3 units, but be warned that the units it make do cost more resources. But when you can make em that fast, it's not that big a deal. Also, the whole amphibious part is nothing to scoff at. Plus, how can you hate a unit with it's own personal shield? Also, it's an aircraft restaging/refuling platform, so it's the best support unit in the game really. My favorite plan is to send it in with a buncha bombers on it's back, well protected since enemies have to go through it's shield to damage said bombers. Then the bombers take off and cause havoc while the Fatboy's native weaponry does some nice damage itself. Plus, unit production rocks. Great all around unit. The only real counter to this thing is lots and lots and lots of guns. It has no real weakness, except it can't build units and move at the same time. Enough concentrated firepower will take it down, just keep shooting.

Atlantis
-------
Probably my least favorite experimental in the game, this thing is only good if you have the time to get it fully equipped. It's only real native weaponry is the lots of torpedos it has, which can help a lot, granted. However, for this thing to be fully effective, you need to fill it with a LOT of planes, which can take a while. However, it is one of the cheaper and faster experimentals to build, which can help offset that. Best plan to use this thing is to build it, fill er up, then sneak it around back. Have a nice land force attack the front, draw their attention that way, then surface the Atlantis and let all those bombers loose. It'll scare the crap outta most commanders, and it's a great pincer move. To take this thing down, just have plenty of scouts/sonar to see it, and torpedo the crap outta it. Torp bombers are a good choice, but just get as many firing at it as fast as possible, and it'll go down.

Mavor
------
Oh the Mavor, how I do so love thee. One of the more fun experimentals, if not the most realistic choice. It takes FUCKING FOREVER to build. One T3 engineer takes about 6 HOURS to build this thing. Yeah. Six hours. Go make yourself one helluva snack. But if you really want to get it going, it's certainly possible. Turtle the fuck out of your base, build a fucking MASSIVE economy, and then assist the fuck out of it. Lots of support commanders and T3 engineers will be required to get this thing online. To be honest, I don't think it'll see much use in a normal game, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. I've only had the game for a weekend. But yeah, just get lots of defenses, shield generators like mad, and a great economy going. Once it's done however, you've got a near 100% chance of victory. It'd take a really clever opponent with a great army and plan to take one of these things down before their base gets leveled. The only counter to this baby is to have lots and lots of intel on your opponent. As soon as they start building it, get right the fuck to attacking. Blow up power gens and mass like mad to slow them down, and if you can, attack the guys building it (Which I generally prefer than attacking the half-built Mavor itself). Just hope to god they don't get it running, or you're fucked.

[CaptCommy]

And finally, my section of general tips. This will have no real order, just stuff I found useful.

Assisting is your friend. Build lots of engineers and have them help out as many factories as you can afford. It'll help a TON in getting more powerful units out faster. I really don't think it's possible to win against a decent opponent without knowing how to balance assisting with your economy, so get to practicing it.

On that same subject, scout planes assisting ground forces can be quite handy. If you've got mobile arty, sometimes it's hard to aim right, but if you click an air scout, right click on the arty unit, he'll do a tight circle around his head and follow him everywhere. His LOS is MUCH greater than the arty unit, so it can help spot things that the piece itself can't see.

As I went over before, adjacency is your friend. The simple way to see it is the more connecting lines you can see in your base, the better you are. Also, T3 mass fabricator surrounded by mass storage = win.

Patrolling is your friend. You can make some really clever patrol routes if you stop and think about it, which can be really handy. Also, any engineer on patrol will heal anything it finds that's damaged. Great way to mass repair a large group of units. He'll also reclaim anything he finds, which is a good way to bolster an early game economy.

However, be careful patrolling air units. All air units have a limited amount of fuel (orange bar), which decreases the longer they are in the air. And when a plane is out of fuel, it slows down like woah, which pretty much guarantees them death when they meet the enemy. Landing them will slowly (painfully slowly IMO) refuel them, but the best plan is to build an Air Staging Platform somewhere on their patrol route. Then they'll automatically land and refuel when needed. Aircraft carriers and anything else mentioned as an air refuling/staging platform can do this same function.

Learn to work Ferry Routes. A well planned trip with enough transports and units can really ruin anyones day. Cybran's are quite good at this, if you transport a stealth generator first, all your landing units will land invisibly, and then you can surprise the enemy from a direction they NEVER saw coming.

If your commander is getting raped early, go for a quick swim. Any unit underwater is pretty much immune to anything that's not a torpedo, which can help him survive an early rush.

Intel is life. If you keep dibs on what your opponent is doing, you can just concentrate building a counter. If he's got like, twenty airports, build a lot of fighters and anti-air vehicles. They'll make mincemeat out of him. Just keep sending scout planes around/near him, and have lots of radar. Intel is wonderful.

Your economy is never big enough. Always be upgrading some part of it, whether you're building bigger powerplants or upgrading extractors, ALWAYS be improving your economy. I don't care if you're T3 and think you've got more than enough, you don't. You can always make your base bigger, badder, better. ALWAYS UPGRADE YOUR GODDAMNED ECONOMY.

And finally, a very evil trick I learned if you feel like being an ass. Early on, build an air transport and fly your commander over the enemy base. When the transport gets shot down (doesn't take much), your commander goes nuclear. Only works on game types that aren't assassination obviously, but it's damn evil. Won't get you many friends though.

[SWATJester_os]

The manual never says what I said is wrong, it just neglects to mention it. But it's tried and tested d00d. Put four mass storages around a extractor, it goes from +2 to +3. Energy storage works the same way.

Ahh 4? Ok I never put more than 3.

[Moe_Rahn]

My roommate's post on the SA forums about adjacency shit (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2346587&perpage=40&pagenumber=5#post323514455), some of which I know CaptCommy already covered, but he and I sat down for like two hours on the tutorial map running the numbers on this shit last night and I felt like posting it. This guy (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2346587&pagenumber=6#post323545478) goes into a bit more detail regarding the numbers and shit.

[vecdran]

And finally, a very evil trick I learned if you feel like being an ass. Early on, build an air transport and fly your commander over the enemy base. When the transport gets shot down (doesn't take much), your commander goes nuclear. Only works on game types that aren't assassination obviously, but it's damn evil. Won't get you many friends though.

I have a feeling it will be a rush to be the first person to do this in non-assassination games. The first person to sacrifice his commander and take out another commander means he won't have to worry about having his opponent do the same, and he still has his base.

Might get really interesting in 2+ person games, or games with more than two teams :P

[neko]

Or build like 3 SCUs and drop them into the base

[vecdran]

Eh, the SCU detonation isn't anything to write home about.

[SWATJester_os]

Be the first to upgrade your commander to tech 3, then he can build a strat. nuke all by himself in like 13 minutes.... then it's bye bye, nuking time.

[neko]

How do you upgrade your commander to tech 3? It tells me I need to upgrade my construction units that far, but I have.

[vecdran]

Click on the gear icon (can't really describe it's location, since there are so many different ui styles). That's where you upgrade you commander.

Be careful though, the highest level upgrades are HUGE economy drains, and take forever unless you are assisting.

[neko]

Oh I thought those just added weapons or something to your commander.

[CaptCommy]

Some add weapons, some add cloaking, some add building crap. There are three locations you can upgrade by clicking on different parts of his picture once you're in the upgrade menu.

[neko]

I built a force of about 150 tech 3 siege bots. Lags the entire game to hell and back.

I've found that it's incredibly hard to use any time of air unit since anti-air is so good.

[vecdran]

Eh, the trick to doing air assaults is either doing a long range assault on the AA installations before sending your aircraft in (with artillery or cruise missiles), or just using so many freaking aircraft that it overwhelms his defense batteries. 20 Tier 3 SAM batteries won't last that long against 50+ or so T3 Gunships or Bombers. Sure you'll lose a few, but you'll take them all out and then have free reign to bomb and strafe his base back to the stone age.

This of course all becomes much more difficult if he also has interceptor patrols. For that, I add on a force of my own interceptors to bait his guys back to my AA and then I blow them out of the sky.

[CaptCommy]

I like using my bombers to take out his outward metal installations. I keep them as pinned as I can by blowing up anything he builds outside of range of his SAMs.

[CoMmEnT]

I'm an efficiency nut. I study economics, I min/max every RPG I get my hands on, and I tend to view game balance as a complex spreadsheet whose main challenge is finding that tiny sliver of an advantage someplace and leveraging that into an unstoppable war machine. I'm driven to get the very most out of what I've got, so I spent some time comparing different resource production schemes to separate the efficient from the garbage. I decided to find out what is the best way to get more mass, when it pays to place storage next to your resource production, and what the optimal matrix layout is for maximizing your mass output. So, without further ado, if you're wondering how to get filthy rich in Supreme Commander and overwhelm your opponent with sheer economic efficiency, this guide is for you. Sorry about some of the formatting, I wrote it in Notepad and it doesn't copy over perfectly.

****************************************

Building t1 Mass Extractor:

Mass cost: 36
Energy cost: 360
Time: 60
Extra Mass/tick: +2
Net Energy/tick: -2

Upgrading t1 Mass Extractor to t2:
Mass cost: 900
Energy cost: 5400
Time: 900
Extra Mass/tick: +4
Net Energy/tick: -7

Upgrading t2 Mass Extractor to t3:
Mass cost: 1800
Energy cost: 10800
Time: 1350
Extra Mass/tick: +6
Net Energy/tick: -27

Building six t1 Power Plants and four Massfabs, matrix:
Mass cost: 450
Energy cost: 8,500
Time: 1250
Mass/tick: +4
Net Energy/tick: -7.5

Building four Mass Storage on a t1 Mass Extractor:
Mass cost: 640
Energy cost: 4,800
Time: 800
Extra Mass/tick: +0.5
Net Energy/tick: 0

Building four Mass Storage on a t2 Mass Extractor:
Mass cost: 640
Energy cost: 4,800
Time: 800
Extra Mass/tick: +3
Net Energy/tick: 0

Building four Mass Storage on a t3 Mass Extractor:
Mass cost: 640
Energy cost: 4,800
Time: 800
Extra Mass/tick: +6
Net Energy/tick: 0

Building one t3 Power Plant and two adjacent t3 Massfabs:
Mass cost: 4840
Energy cost: 257,600
Time: 11,400
Mass/tick: +48
Net Energy/tick: +62.5

****************************************

Hopefully all of that is pretty self explanitory. I'll cover some of the more interesting implications of this data now.

First off, building t1 mexes is dirt cheap, fast, and the most efficient source of mass available. Always place those everywhere you can hope to keep them. It only has to live for 18 ticks to pay for its mass cost, so even if you know you're going to lose it in a minute or two to an enemy raid, you might as well build it anyway. They'll take a few seconds to destroy it, too. Why not put some walls around it just to slow them down further? They're dirt cheap, and buy you a little more time. If a wall keeps your mex alive for even one additional tick, it paid for itself. It's worth it, and while you might be tempted to put mass storage around your massfabs, that's usually a bad idea. I'll explain more on that later.

Building six t1 power plants and four t1 massfabs in a matrix costs half as much mass as upgrading a t1 mex to t2 and it gets you the same increase in mass; +4 more than you had before. It takes a bit longer and costs you a little more energy, but the power plants you've built in the process of construction cover those extra costs. If you set up your matrix like the one below, it gives the results I listed. E is t1 power, M is t1 massfab.

EME
MEME
EME

As you'll want more mass than this, you can expand your operation. A pure mass production setup (it increases your mass without changing your energy) is as follows. Periods are used for spacing, they don't mean anything.

....E
..EME
EMEME
..EMEME
....EMEME
......EME
........E

You should have three diagonal rows of power plants completely surrounding two diagonal rows of massfabs. Expand lengthwise, but keep the width the same so that your ratio of 3:2 power plants to massfabs remains the same. If you make it wider, the ratio of power plants to massfabs decreases, and you'll start losing energy. Each row you add gives two more metal and uses up exactly as much energy as the power plants produce. If you suddenly find yourself in need of power, you can turn off your massfabs and get loads of it. This early resource matrix makes your economy quite versatile, as well as giving you an advantage in mass production over an opponent who does inefficient things like placing mass storage by their t2 mexes.

About mass storage; unless you actually need the extra storage, most of the time you shouldn't bother. A popular thing to do is placing mass storage next to t3 mexes. It costs you 640 mass to surround one, and gets you an extra +6 mass per tick. You're looking at 0.009375 mass per tick per mass spent. In other words, it'll take about 100 ticks for it to pay for itself. Not bad. By all means build mass storage up next to your first couple of t3 mexes, but once you've got the resources to start building t3 power and massfabs, stick with that. Here's why:

If you spend resources building a t3 power plant with two adjacent t3 massfabs, the efficiency is 0.009917. That's the most basic sort of matrix, nothing fancy at all. Just so long as each t3 massfab has one side covered by the power plant you're all set. It gets more efficient as you start expanding, but gets more vulnerable, too. I've tried a bunch of really complex tesselations, and none of them will beat that simple setup by more than about 3.5% efficiency, so you're better off just building those little nodes of one power plant and two massfabs and not worrying about a chain reaction wiping your whole economy. If you like, you can put the t3 power plant so that its corner touches the corner of a factory, that way you can get a handy mass reduction from your two massfabs which are adjacent to both the factory and the power plant.

If you happen to lose a t3 mex and its surrounding mass storage units, don't rebuild it unless you can't afford t3 power and t3 massfabs. It costs 2440 mass to build a t3 mex and surround it with mass storage, and it gives you 18 mass per tick. Building a t3 power plant and two t3 massfabs costs about twice as much, and gives you 48 mass per tick. It's more efficient, and it's easier on your unit cap as well. Just rebuild a t1 mex there, those are extremely efficient. They're actually about six times as efficient as the t3 power/massfab combo, while t2 mexes are only 2/3 as efficient as t3 power/massfab. Quite the difference.

There are five reasons why you should ever upgrade your mexes to t2 or t3. If any of these apply then go for it, otherwise don't. First, if you don't have space for a t1 power/massfab matrix, then upgrade your mexes. If you're being harassed, bombed, or suffering bombardment and don't want to risk the chain reaction, upgrade your mexes. If you can't spare any engineers for whatever reason to build a power/massfab matrix, upgrade your mexes. If you've got a mex adjacent to a factory, it can be worth it to upgrade the mex for the increased mass reduction bonus. Finally, it's worth upgrading them if you've got more mass than you know what to do with at the moment. This shouldn't ever happen, but even compulsive efficiency fanatics like me slip up sometimes. If none of those things are happening to you and you don't think they'll happen in the near future, don't upgrade your mexes and just build a power/massfab matrix instead. It doesn't have to be large to be a lot more efficient than t2 mexes, so feel free to make several in different places. A t3 power/massfab combo is way more efficient though, so the sooner you can get started on one of those the better.

About energy storage; only build it if you need it. There is absolutely no way to make energy storage into a cost effective method for increasing your energy output. The ideal (and ridiculous) arrangement of placing four t3 power plants around a single energy storage so that their edges just barely touch will give you a boost in energy production that is still only about 2/3 as efficient as just building another power plant for the cost, plus with building more power plants you can take advantage of massfab synergies that make a real difference. Trying to get some sort of efficiency out of energy storage is like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.

Now, most of my time figuring this stuff out was spent on making the most efficient t3 resource matrix I could. As close as I could get to perfect was a simple diagonal strip of t3 power, and t3 massfabs placed on the corners so that each massfab had two sides completely covered by t3 power. The efficiency ranged from about 0.00991 with two power plants and four massfabs, to just over 0.0102 with larger numbers. If you want a little more mass storage at the expense of some of your unit cap, you can try the second layout, a grid. Each letter represents a single square, not a single building. The diagonal stripe below is two t3 power plants and four t3 massfabs.

Diagonal stripe: (most efficient, room for shield generators)

P P P P
P P P P M M M
P P P P M M M
P P P P M M M
..M M M P P P P
..M M M P P P P M M M
..M M M P P P P M M M
............P P P P M M M
..............M M M
..............M M M
..............M M M


Grid: (gives some mass storage)

...MMM S MMM
...MMM S MMM
...MMM S MMM
P P P P P P P P
P P P P P P P P
P P P P P P P P
P P P P P P P P
...MMM S MMM
...MMM S MMM
...MMM S MMM

Your power plants should be touching, and your mass storage (S) should be placed at center where their corners meet. Place your t3 massfabs so that they are directly north and south of your power plants, so that the center lines up with each. This gives you just enough room to place your mass storage between your massfabs. The efficiency of this setup is 0.01015037, not quite as good as the diagonal layout, but it gets you 3,000 mass storage in the process, so it's better if you need more storage. The extra second that it takes to pay for itself doesn't matter much anyway. Another advantage of the diagonal stripe over the grid is that you have more room for things like shield generators to put over your matrix. Both designs are vulnerable to chain reactions, so protect them. If you're worried about that, building one t3 power plant with two t3 massfabs is only about 3% less efficient, and you can spread those out all over the place. The above designs were mostly just a mental exercise to keep myself entertained at work last night, rather than a practical effort at maximizing production. I just had to do it to see how much difference it would make to use a dedicated matrix vs a simple 1pp/2massfab grouping.

Congratulations on reading all of this. Now you're ready to go out and kick people around with your superior economic efficiency.

repost

[SWATJester_os]

Some add weapons, some add cloaking, some add building crap. There are three locations you can upgrade by clicking on different parts of his picture once you're in the upgrade menu.

Yeah that took me forever to figure out. For example, one of the arms is the teching up section, and another of the arms is the gun/resource section, and the back/head does soemthing else too.


Eh, the trick to doing air assaults is either doing a long range assault on the AA installations before sending your aircraft in (with artillery or cruise missiles), or just using so many freaking aircraft that it overwhelms his defense batteries. 20 Tier 3 SAM batteries won't last that long against 50+ or so T3 Gunships or Bombers. Sure you'll lose a few, but you'll take them all out and then have free reign to bomb and strafe his base back to the stone age.

This of course all becomes much more difficult if he also has interceptor patrols. For that, I add on a force of my own interceptors to bait his guys back to my AA and then I blow them out of the sky.

Send spy/scout planes. They confuse the AA into shooting them instead.

[HarryB]

I have to disagree with Commy's view of the Fatboy, that thing is a beast. Its got more firepower than two battleships, a personal shield that's the size of a teir 3 shield generator, and can produce teir 2 tanks and teir 3 engineers. It can go underwater, destroy submarines, and can fight air units. Fuck, I just took out 2 commanders in a skirmish with one and all I did was drive it at their base.

[Scraps]

Battleships feel epic when they fire.

[mg23]

I managed to build a T3 artillery gun, and after one shot it destroyed the enemy commander and ended the game. :(

[HarryB]

Battleships feel epic when they fire.

There's something to be said for a unit that takes almost a half hour to make and can destroy anything with a volley from the other side of the map.

[Scraps]

There's something to be said for a unit that takes almost a half hour to make and can destroy anything with a volley from the other side of the map.

I'd say mavor but you said 1/2 hour not sixteen days

[vecdran]

Uh, you prepare for the Mavor with a massive economy and lots of engineers. I usually build one in under 10 minutes when I get started.

[SWATJester_os]

There's something to be said for a unit that takes almost a half hour to make and can destroy anything with a volley from the other side of the map.

Eh, battleships take 13 minutes for me, usually less.

[CoMmEnT]

Dashdar and I had a hella game last night.

It was a 5k by 5k map, with really no physical structures controlling units.

It was Me/Dashdar v. Balanced(Hard)/Challenge(Medium) v. Balanced(Hard)/Challenge(Medium)

It only took 1:30 to play, but it ended up me, getting supremely lucky and taking down a Balanced's commander with a load of siege bots, heavy arty tanks, t3 bombers. He was hiding under t3 shields, that were destroyed by bombers. Then the tanks + siege bots laid into him.

Luckily the comp at that point didn't know what to do and as it tried to recoil its commander into its base. I finally put the last nail in the coffin.

BOOM!

I was seriously joyful over vent. I wish I had recorded it.

[Dashdar]

I think the Map was a 10k x 10m map

but it was nuts.

[CoMmEnT]

It was 10k x 10k.

[proudinfidel117]

Eh, battleships take 13 minutes for me, usually less.

can you change the game speed, as in TA?

[HarryB]

The only thing about killing commanders is that generally your entire force is wiped out in the process. I mean, when I blew up the second commander with my fatboy it was about 50 feet away. It was sort of funny because the initial blast destroyed its shields, but didn't actually damage it. But then a second shockwave went out and vaporized it.

[proudinfidel117]

The only thing about killing commanders is that generally your entire force is wiped out in the process. I mean, when I blew up the second commander with my fatboy it was about 50 feet away. It was sort of funny because the initial blast destroyed its shields, but didn't actually damage it. But then a second shockwave went out and vaporized it.

reminds me of what i used to do in TA. build a couple pens out of dragons teeth then get air transports as fast as I could, then hijack all enemy commanders and put them in pens. i could build at my liesure and let them loose when i was ready. :D

[SWATJester_os]

can you change the game speed, as in TA?

+ or - on the num pad.

BTW, if you assist the factory with engineers it goes faster. Plus, if you upgrade your commanders build capability to tech 3, he can build things like he's on crack, especially if he's assisting

[mg23]

reminds me of what i used to do in TA. build a couple pens out of dragons teeth then get air transports as fast as I could, then hijack all enemy commanders and put them in pens. i could build at my liesure and let them loose when i was ready. :D
Man that was so much fun. I haven't tried it in SC, although I doubt it's as easy given the game's dynamics.

[Scraps]

Ok so with like 10 t3 power gens the scathis is awesome.

[vecdran]

Man that was so much fun. I haven't tried it in SC, although I doubt it's as easy given the game's dynamics.

I don't think you can life enemy units.

Not to mention an enemy commander can suck up a wall unit in about half a second.

[HarryB]

I don't think you can life enemy units.

Not to mention an enemy commander can suck up a wall unit in about half a second.

Then make guns out of the resources.

[SWATJester_os]

Ok so with like 10 t3 power gens the scathis is awesome.

Until it dies from 2 T3 artillery strikes.

[Scraps]

Until it dies from 2 T3 artillery strikes.

Thats why I just switced back to UEF.

[vecdran]

Then make guns out of the resources.


Did I just say "life" enemy units? Hello typing dyslexia.

Edit:

Good God the last UEF mission is insane. I had three defensive lines for the north, 5 battleships on each side of the peninsula, two Tier 3 arty pieces + Mavor, 4 nuke defenses, more units than I care to count, and they still busted through to my line just in front of Black Sun before I fired it. I killed over 10 nukes, Czars, Monkeylords, Tempests, and so many Tier 3 bombers my AA network cried a river.