Tobacco?

[DunNa]

Is discussion of tobacco, and alcohol kosher? I am talking in totally US legal regards, with all parties involved to be 21+ etc.

[pk!]

It's kosher, yes. Unless you're talking about pork wine or oyster and cream cigarettes. Those sort of things are trayf.

[DasHuhn]

Not according to the rules.

[Prowl]

d. Illegality:

* i. Casual discussions of drugs and intoxicants are discouraged. If you have something important that you'd like to discuss about these topics, use the Advice or Firebox sections.

[DunNa]

So this means I could make a thread about pipe smoking (the legal tobacco kind) in the discussion forum if I wanted?

Quoting rules to me means jack shit when these rules are open to interpretations by the various mods/admins/etc. I mean they could just say "this isn't important" and then its over with and I'm possibly left on "thin ice" with warnings and such. I also enjoy very much less than serious converstations specially about less than serious topics (I wouldn't exactly consider a discussion about smoking serious unless it was discussion the legal aspects of it). Basicly I came here for clarification and you simply go "lawl, let me be obscure and give you absolutely no insight, I'm like an asian grand master with 20 years of obscure quotes to throw at you!"

[FaKToR]

d. Illegality:

* i. Casual discussions of drugs and intoxicants are discouraged. If you have something important that you'd like to discuss about these topics, use the Advice or Firebox sections.

Somehow I don't think repeating the rules helps a person who is asking for clarification on said rules, and I'd expect you'd be able to figure that out, but I guess I'm wrong.

[Prowl]

1. it says discouraged not forbidden.

2. it suggests the advice forum or the firebox if you have anything important to discuss.

If you have figured out the usage of the firebox and/or the advice sub forums then you would have a pretty good idea of what kind of discussion is acceptable in them.

A thread about "omg I got so drunk last night dude" doesn't belong in the firebox, and unless you want serious advice on handling your alcohol issue then I would suggest that the advice sub-forum is not the place for this thread either.

Since there seems to be no place that thread would be appropriate it would seem to be an inappropriate thread no?

I thought that was quite a clearly written rule, apologies to those of you who did not find that to be the case. I was not trying to be obtuse, I assumed he hadn't read the rule at all.

[DunNa]

So then a thread discussing (in the OTF since its not overtly serious) pipes would be a no no?

I mean its a very loosely writen rule, "suggests" and "not forbidden" are very dubious words if you know what I mean. The rules, there enforcement and what exactly is exceptable has supposedly undergone afew large changes recently with the forum layout changes and such.

All I want is a simple "yes you can make a thread about pipes and smoking them, with the content of your actual thread being about completely legal non-weed related subjects", or "No DunNa, quit being a picky bitch just make the thread so I can ban you and think up some other niffty jab at the US". Ideally that thread would be in the OTF, or you can just add on to the "its ok" reply a "only if its in XXX sub-forum".

[Noirceur]

I don't see why Tobacco wouldn't be fine to discuss, I can't think of a country offhand in which it's illegal.

[Lord Kelvin]

I don't think it really matters, since the GoDaddy legal thingy only applies to Phoenix, Arizona (that's where Maricopa County is).

[DasHuhn]

I don't see why Tobacco wouldn't be fine to discuss, I can't think of a country offhand in which it's illegal.

the reason they don't want weed discussed, is that "it's illegal" and "YOU'LL ENCOURGE OTHERS TO DO IT!111"

Since, if we talk about weed and people will do it - If we talk about alcohol, those under the age might also want to drink. Same goes for cigarettes.

Personally, I thought that "pipe smoke" was "off topic" for the gaming forum - and therefore, the appropriate place to talk about such a thing is, in fact, the 'off topic forum.'

[Modest Genius]

^only if they have no self control. and in which case, releasing WaW will encourage them to join the army and/or shoot people

see the problem with that reasoning?

[DasHuhn]

^only if they have no self control. and in which case, releasing WaW will encourage them to join the army and/or shoot people

see the problem with that reasoning?

Oh, I'm aware of the flaw of reasoning. It's the reasoning i've been told to as why we cannot have these things, or discuss these things.

[Prowl]

if you want to discuss pipe smoking for some reason, then take it to the advice forum if you want to either receive advice or impart advice. If you want to have a serious debate about some aspect of pipe smoking then the firebox is the place for it. It is fairly clear to me that the rules say that it is not appropriate for the OTF.

The original rule is crystal clear as soon as you realise that tobacco is still an intoxicant, if far more mild than alcohol.

And I have no personal crusade against tobbaco since I smoke at least 10 a day and stronger stuff less often.

Is that clear enough yet?

[Onyx]

No.

[Prowl]

http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/about/img/f_lovealot.gif

[Captain Colon]

Christ, just make the fucking thread and if you get a warning you'll know not to do it again.

[StandingCow]

Christ, just make the fucking thread and if you get a warning you'll know not to do it again.

Thank you, finally, somebody gets it. :)

Never woulda thought it would be CC. :lincoln:

[Noirceur]

It's understandable that people want to know the rules beforehand, especially seeing how subjective these particular rules are and how certain swear words(like cunt, for instance) are more or less offensive depending on who you talk to.

As Howard Stern said, "Don't tell me what I can't say after I say it and then punish me for saying what I didn't know I couldn't say."
However, since we're dealing with simple warnings, it's not that big a deal.

[RoommateRiot]

Seeing as how it's legal, i think it should be ok to talk about. Caffeine is a "drug" too, and i don't think anyone would think that was innapropriate for the OTF. I think the rule of thumb should be whether or not it's legal, not whether or not it's a drug.

[DunNa]

Thank you, finally, somebody gets it. :)

I used to go with that frame of mind but with the recent rule changes and when I actually do put something like "mods feel free to edit or remove" I get told to ask first next time. Now I ask and I get told to just post the thread and find out.

My main concern was the lack of a definitive rule on the subject, the rule Prowl quoted is worded rather less than concretely and covers such a potentially large quantity of subjects/substances that I wasn't sure if this rule was intented for things like "real" drugs only (aka the illegal stuff and the things generally frowned upon) or if it was ment for quite literally EVER intoxicant known to man. Even then there was no definitive yes or no inside of that rule the wording is very forgiving and leaves it very much open to interupritation.

Combine in that moderators have personal feelings on matters such as GC with the handicapped. So if unknownced to me Alex(picked at random) or someone was trying to quite smoking right then I doubt the last they would want to see a "check out my pimp new pipe, and this captian spice tobacco is friggin awesome!" thread, and I might be dealt with harsher than what would normally be done for such things.

My understanding is that I CAN NOT make such a thread in the OTF and its not exactly a serious topic by any means. Thus I am not making the thread, a simple "yes making that sort of thread in the OTF is fine" or simply even just "sure its cool" would have worked. Though in this case it would have been "no DunNa do not post that or I will be forced to filet your dick with a spork", atleast I think thats what the answer is... I'm really simple minded and wrapping my mind around these answers have been less than easy.

[StandingCow]

The rules are always going to have holes in them. There is no way to keep the rules list short and all encompassing.

Perhaps there should be a rule along the lines of show respect for your fellow posters.

[DunNa]

The rules are always going to have holes in them. There is no way to keep the rules list short and all encompassing.

Firstly I'll quote a rule (I'm Prowl Jr. :D ).

2. If you have a question about the specific meaning of any of these rules, please ask a moderator first BEFORE posting something questionable.
a. Rules interpretations by the forum staff take precedence, and the interpretations of the administrators are gospel. This basicly completely contradicts your suggestion, then it goes father to say that interpretations by forum staff take precedence. Thus you are confusing the ever loving shit out of me with this.

As for the rule about intoxicants it could be edited to say only illegal intoxicants (what is legal and illegal is already defined in the rule list). Though would an age restricted substance be considered legal or illegal?

* i. Casual discussions of illegal drugs and intoxicants are discouraged. If you have something important that you'd like to discuss about these topics, use the Advice or Firebox sections.

My edit is in red just incase you needed help finding it. This would be alot more clear on the subject. Since I'm not even sure if I am allowed to discuss drinking energy drinks in the OTF if I wanted to anymore, with its current wording.

Though to help avoid further confusion about controlled substances, it might need a special mention for tabacco and alcohol (any other age restricted intoxicants?) stating if they are acceptable or not.

Perhaps there should be a rule along the lines of show respect for your fellow posters.

I'm not sure if you are trying to say I am being rude and should watch my step for questioning the rules on this or if you're just randomly putting out ideas in a completely unrelated thread. Though basicly the entire rule sections about don't be a jerk, and similar parts basicly cover this sort of rules general idea I think as well as can be expected.

You guys were the one to put the rules on a more strict and more involved aspect of the forum I am simply doing as they suggest. Asking first, and discussing potential changes to help future misunderstanding be avoided.

[StandingCow]

I'm not sure if you are trying to say I am being rude and should watch my step for questioning the rules on this or if you're just randomly putting out ideas in a completely unrelated thread. Though basicly the entire rule sections about don't be a jerk, and similar parts basicly cover this sort of rules general idea I think as well as can be expected.

No that is not what I ment at all, I just thought it wouldn't be a bad rule.

[Modest Genius]

No that is not what I ment at all, I just thought it wouldn't be a bad rule.nice job on ignoring the rest of his post

[Gene$tarwind]

I don't think it really matters, since the GoDaddy legal thingy only applies to Phoenix, Arizona (that's where Maricopa County is). you can still smoke indoors in phoenix, maybe not in bars but in wafle house you can

[maggie]

So DunNa, would it help if the rule stated that:
* i. Casual discussions of illegal and age-restricted drugs and intoxicants are discouraged.
?

This seems like a not-unreasonable and possibly useful edit; I'll bring it up with the admins.

[StandingCow]

nice job on ignoring the rest of his post

Perhaps I did not want to respond to the rest of his post.

[Prowl]

the spirit of the rule was that we did not want to hear your stories about getting drunk (legally or otherwise), this would also extend to you getting high off legal intoxicants as well. UNLESS of course you wanted some serious advice about it in which case you have the advice forum, or if you wanted to debate seriously about it's usage in which case the firebox is appropriate.

Can it get any clearer than that?

"omg I got so wasted last night" is simply not a thread we wanna waste our bandwith on.

[Modest Genius]

so what if someone posts a thread saying 'I drank 10 cups of coffee this afternoon, now I'm all abuzz!'?

[Lord Kelvin]

the spirit of the rule was that we did not want to hear your stories about getting drunk (legally or otherwise), this would also extend to you getting high off legal intoxicants as well. UNLESS of course you wanted some serious advice about it in which case you have the advice forum, or if you wanted to debate seriously about it's usage in which case the firebox is appropriate.

Can it get any clearer than that?

"omg I got so wasted last night" is simply not a thread we wanna waste our bandwith on.

What about mentioning it casually in the course of a post which doesn't have the intention as you put it? For example, "I smoked a few cigarettes while waiting for her to show up" or "So I drank a few beers while chatting with them, got a bit buzzed after the third one" or something like that? My opinion is that discussion of it shouldn't be limited at all, except in cases of the extreme (as per your example).

[Prowl]

well you could always ask yourself if we care about your coffee drinking exploits?

however we think we have a minor alteration to the rule which would make a lot more sense and mean that your latest example would be acceptable, which tbh, although pointless as a thread, isn't a cause for concern to anyone.

[Captain Colon]

well you could always ask yourself if we care about your coffee drinking exploits?
Come on, I think you should know by now that whether anyone cares or not is NOT part of the criteria for deciding whether or not to post something :lincoln:

[Modest Genius]

indeed, at least in the OTF ;)