GDC and PC Gaming discussions.

[RageUnleashed]

For awhile now I just wrote off game piracy, I dislike it, I don't pirate games period. I buy them new and occasionally used. But the discussions at GDC last week really astonished me. Companies such as Epic, talking about why PC-only games (such as the Unreal Tournament series, though it did have the xbox offshoot, Unreal Championship games) are getting ported and adapted more and more to consoles; PC gaming has an insanely higher piracy rate than consoles. And yet I see so many PC gamers who admit to downloading a game on a torrent site, and then turn right around and complain that games are being adapted to consoles or that the PC market is stagnating. Maybe that will turn a few of you idiots pirating games into doing the easy, legal solution for being a cheapass; wait a few monthes and the game will drop to $20. If you don't have the money, you simply go without the game for a little while. Imagine if game pirates went out and bought ONE PC game in a year rather than downloading it off some shitty warez site, the PC game industry would make a TON of cash.

Summary: pirates are hurting the PC gaming industry and developers are more and more heading to consoles or doing PC & console releases. Fuck you, pirating morons.

[TheSock]

More PC game companies should adapt something like Steam, as it seems harder to pirate a Steam game.

[RageUnleashed]

More PC game companies should adapt something like Steam, as it seems harder to pirate a Steam game.

They certainly will be and to think so many people bitch about Steam too...well, that's the price we'll have to pay for the idiots.

[CoMmEnT]

EA Link?

[Captain Colon]

I could really give a fuck if PC games just disappeared entirely, but I don't so I will continue to pirate.

nyah nyah nyahhhh

[RageUnleashed]

EA Link?

? EA? I first heard of the piracy talks on PC Gamer's latest podcast (pcgamer.com)

[Maddog]

or they are porting games to consoles because that's the bigger market and they need to make as much money as they can because of the rising costs of making games. The PC market has been in the decline for a while now and I doubt piracy is the only reason for it. I compare this to the RIAA saying piracy is destroying the music industry.

[RageUnleashed]

or they are porting games to consoles because that's the bigger market and they need to make as much money as they can because of the rising costs of making games. The PC market has been in the decline for a while now and I doubt piracy is the only reason for it. I compare this to the RIAA saying piracy is destroying the music industry.

Good point, development costs are rising, and multiplatform games are a great way to make more money. No one is saying the "decline" of PC gaming is solely due to how much easier it is to pirate a PC game. However, consoles are harder to pirate with, and the whether or not the amount of piracy is cutting into developer's pockets (which it is), developers are taking note of this and saying outright it's one of the reasons they are porting games. Is piracy destroying the PC games market? No, but it's making enough of a dent to sway many devs away from it. My point is if anyone is pirating PC games, they shouldn't be the same people bitching that the PC gaming market is changing, because they are part of the problem.

I'm all for Steam-esque solutions to piracy. I loved that post where the guy was saying he had purchased HL2 and it wasn't working, only to be called out that he was actually trying to start the game with a bunch of warez keys. Any way you cut it, it's stealing and it's wrong.

[siddy]

or they are porting games to consoles because that's the bigger market and they need to make as much money as they can because of the rising costs of making games. The PC market has been in the decline for a while now and I doubt piracy is the only reason for it. I compare this to the RIAA saying piracy is destroying the music industry.

it's also a lot easier to code on a console (one type of gfx card, one type of processor, one type of everything). When I like a videogame, I buy it, it doesn't matter if it's console or PC. However, I've bought some really bad PC games (BF2 etc) that I kinda feel ripped-off about. Some games I'll test before I buy, other ones (HL2) I'll buy as soon as I can.

[CoMmEnT]

? EA? I first heard of the piracy talks on PC Gamer's latest podcast (pcgamer.com)

More like:

http://www.ea.com/ealink/

A Steam copy for EA.

[Captain Colon]

EA Link is what PC gamers have been waiting for!
A bastardized version of the Steam beta with even MORE bugs?

[GusButts]

A bastardized version of the Steam beta with even MORE bugs?

"This is what PC gamers have been waiting for!"

Yeah welcome to whenever Steam was released. :rolleyes:

[Col. Psycho]

in all honesty whilst i dont support piracy, i do prefer to download a game to see if i will enjoy it enough to warrant the purchase, and besides, the only way to play online legitimately these days is to purchase a real copy, which i end up doing anyway.

So yeah, shoot me for testing a game out, but realise i only do it to pay for the right games that appeal to me. :P

[CaptCommy]

in all honesty whilst i dont support piracy, i do prefer to download a game to see if i will enjoy it enough to warrant the purchase, and besides, the only way to play online legitimately these days is to purchase a real copy, which i end up doing anyway.

So yeah, shoot me for testing a game out, but realise i only do it to pay for the right games that appeal to me. :P

It's called a legal game demo. They exist for almost everything made now a days.

I also haven't pirated a game in my life, and never plan to do so. There's no point in stealing well, anything really, I pay for every piece of software on my computer. Someone worked hard on it, and hell, if I had made it, I'd want some cash for it too. However, I'm not stuck far up my ass enough to expect everyone to conform to my standards. I understand piracy will always exist, and no self-righteous tirade of mine will stop them. However, I would appreciate people buying more games rather than stealing them. It's better for everyone in the long run.

[Col. Psycho]

It's called a legal game demo. They exist for almost everything made now a days.

I also haven't pirated a game in my life, and never plan to do so. There's no point in stealing well, anything really, I pay for every piece of software on my computer. Someone worked hard on it, and hell, if I had made it, I'd want some cash for it too. However, I'm not stuck far up my ass enough to expect everyone to conform to my standards. I understand piracy will always exist, and no self-righteous tirade of mine will stop them. However, I would appreciate people buying more games rather than stealing them. It's better for everyone in the long run.

i agree with that and the game demo statement 100%. but game demos dont reflect the final product all the time and i prefer to be thorough. Besides, every game that i have pirated and enjoyed i've ended up owning a legit copy afterwards at one time or another.

its the same with music. i dont want to buy an entire album for a single song which wasnt released as a single. so, i would either pirate it or buy it off itunes, depending on if it was available.

im a pirate of the new age. :|

[RageUnleashed]

i agree with that and the game demo statement 100%. but game demos dont reflect the final product all the time and i prefer to be thorough. Besides, every game that i have pirated and enjoyed i've ended up owning a legit copy afterwards at one time or another.

its the same with music. i dont want to buy an entire album for a single song which wasnt released as a single. so, i would either pirate it or buy it off itunes, depending on if it was available.

im a pirate of the new age. :|


Rofl at least you're admitting you're a pirate. New age? Ha.

Game demos reflect a part of the final product. You're stealing the game, to check out the full product, using the argument "only the full product properly portrays the final product!". So...what? You play through the whole game and then decide if its worth the cash? So that justifies what you're doing right? No. You're stealing games, then buying a few choice ones. You're a thief, own up to that fact.

Plenty of us play demos, read reviews, watch videos, or any of the other big free resources to decide what games to buy, works just fine for me. If you're cautious on a game, but still want to buy it, wait until it's cheaper.

[Captain Colon]

boohoo

[Col. Psycho]

actually, i dont play through the entire game most of the time. I say new age because we arent exactly pirates of the old age sailing the oceans raping, plundering and pillaging.

Anyway, im not justifying it, im merely telling you thats what i do most of the time. and i dont play through the entire game, i normally play through the first bit and if its captivates me i end up buying the game that weekend and playing it legitimetly. (sp?) Call me a thief, thats fine. but im willing to bet 99% of knowledgable people who play games on the internet are thieves, and im also certain that most of them dont do what i do and end up buying the game.

so yeah, give me shit, i dont really care. Its like taking a test drive of a car, if you like it enough, you buy it. A demo would be like changing into 3rd gear and being able to only turn left, and thats it. shitty comparison i know, but thats how i see it.

and dont for one second say you have never downloaded something so you wouldnt have to pay for it. everyone has downloaded at least a song or two from the internet in thier lifetimes. ;) everyone here is a thief.

[marty]

They certainly will be and to think so many people bitch about Steam too...well, that's the price we'll have to pay for the idiots.

Actually, I LOVE steam. No more gay CD checks that slow you down. And you can download games instead of going to the store :D

A lot of people feel that way, I believe

[GusButts]

I actually like driving to the mall and buy games.

[Krispy Joe]

Hahahahahahahaha EA Link

"Your 600mb BF2 Patch Has Completed Downloading"

"Installing..."

"File corrupted, please re-download"

>:|

[neko]

People always say wait a few months and games will be $20, but that is usually never the case. They usually stay at $50 for a pretty long time judging from my experience.

Oh and if you think PC gaming is dying take a look at this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=24525221)

[RageUnleashed]

actually, i dont play through the entire game most of the time. I say new age because we arent exactly pirates of the old age sailing the oceans raping, plundering and pillaging.

Anyway, im not justifying it, im merely telling you thats what i do most of the time. and i dont play through the entire game, i normally play through the first bit and if its captivates me i end up buying the game that weekend and playing it legitimetly. (sp?) Call me a thief, thats fine. but im willing to bet 99% of knowledgable people who play games on the internet are thieves, and im also certain that most of them dont do what i do and end up buying the game.

so yeah, give me shit, i dont really care. Its like taking a test drive of a car, if you like it enough, you buy it. A demo would be like changing into 3rd gear and being able to only turn left, and thats it. shitty comparison i know, but thats how i see it.

and dont for one second say you have never downloaded something so you wouldnt have to pay for it. everyone has downloaded at least a song or two from the internet in thier lifetimes. ;) everyone here is a thief.


My only point is that you type paragraphs rambling about your reasoning, when all you need to say is "I steal games", I know entirely too many people who think it's perfectly fine and morally just to steal based on your exact "hey I'm test driving this game! That makes it perfectly fine!". It's not test driving, test driving is playing the demo. You're stealing a car, driving it around, then leaving it somewhere and/OR buying a legit one.

Look, I download porn and music, I'm stealing a lot of it because its copyrighted. I'm not going to pretty that fact up by saying "oh I MIGHT buy some of it later!"

[Glock23]

Arguing that piracy steals sales asserts that every pirated copy of a game is a copy that would have sold on the shelves, one to one.

Stop being self-righteous and retarded, RU. If developers would make better stuff than Sims 2: ELEVENTY BILLION WHEE WE STOPPED TRYING A LONG TIME AGO, then they'd be fine.

The problem isn't piracy, it's regarding piracy as a crime instead of the business model it is.

[RageUnleashed]

Arguing that piracy steals sales asserts that every pirated copy of a game is a copy that would have sold on the shelves, one to one..

What?! No it doesn't, it says piracy negatively affects sales, that can be of ANY ratio. Not just 1 to 1. Which it does! Sales are negatively affected. Period.

Stop being self-righteous and retarded, RU. If developers would make better stuff than Sims 2: ELEVENTY BILLION WHEE WE STOPPED TRYING A LONG TIME AGO, then they'd be fine.

Not being self righteous, I just admitted I steal porn and music. Just saying morons who steal, then complain about the state of PC games, or try to justify what they're doing as AOK, they're idiots. Fuck off and learn to read.

And maybe EA would stop making Sims addons if people stopped buying them. As is, the Sims is profitable....so they'll make em.

The problem isn't piracy, it's regarding piracy as a crime instead of the business model it is.

Ha! HAHAHAHAHAHA! Car theft is a business model to the car industry too huh? Home burglarly is a business model to the jewelry, tv, clothing, etc industry too! It's a criminal business model to be sure, but it's stealing from the people who doing things legit. That's a problem.

[Col. Psycho]

My only point is that you type paragraphs rambling about your reasoning, when all you need to say is "I steal games", I know entirely too many people who think it's perfectly fine and morally just to steal based on your exact "hey I'm test driving this game! That makes it perfectly fine!". It's not test driving, test driving is playing the demo. You're stealing a car, driving it around, then leaving it somewhere and/OR buying a legit one.

Look, I download porn and music, I'm stealing a lot of it because its copyrighted. I'm not going to pretty that fact up by saying "oh I MIGHT buy some of it later!"

hey, i dont say its alright what i do, dont jump the gun. im not trying to ramble on about my reasoning, and im sorry if you feel that i am. Maybe your analogy is more correct, but I dont see it like that. I think im also entitled to say what i feel on the subject, instead of "i steal games." thats a bit wrong to tell me what i should say and you are implying my opinion doesnt matter because im a bad guy automatically.

well, if thats the case, you are also a thief, and a bad guy, and you should just say:

"im acting like a hypocrite - i'm okay with stealing porn and music but stealing games is a big no no in my book."

because thats the vibe im getting from you. two wrongs dont make a right. ;) and stealing is still stealing any way you look at it, so take a look at yourself before you brand others "thieves".

other than that, <3 :kak: :kak: i still love you. :D











and your hot wife.. ;D

[RageUnleashed]

I approached it wrong and I apologize Col. Psycho. The "it's trying out games!" excuse ticks me off to no end. I was just debating in circles because I know TOO many idiots who say that its just fine because of that very reason. You are to be commended that you admit it's wrong, lots of people won't, and I interpreted it as "prettying it up" as your reasoning.

Listen, we all steal something. I'll be the first to admit I've stolen this or that in the past, and I'll be quick to admit its wrong. The point I'm trying to make is there are people who saying it's not wrong, and are idiots to the point that they complain the industry they steal from isn't meeting their personal standard. Get what I'm saying? Everyone has things they don't steal that they easily could, mine is games.

This convoluted rant has been brought to the OTF by my anal reasoning. Thank you and good night!

[Col. Psycho]

heh, i understand fully, and agree with you 100%. as i mentioned, i dont use my reason as an excuse, but thats what i actually do when i pirate a game. Im aware it is indeed wrong, and it annoys me too when people complain about a game being crap when they didnt pay for it in the first place. that might sound hypocritical on my part but im sure you understand what im trying to get at.

im just glad that we see eye to eye on this and you also admitted to being a pirate. :D

[maggie]

Moved to the discussion forum.

P.S. I downloaded the original Sims series, then bought them all. I'm a thief and a player of dorky girl games. D:!

[kreket]

Actually, I LOVE steam. No more gay CD checks that slow you down. And you can download games instead of going to the store :D

A lot of people feel that way, I believe

Steam can be good for sharing games. Me and my brother had an excellent arrangement: He was an apprentice cook at a institution, with a bit of travel distance. I was a student at the university. Totally different outlooks on bed time.

I also see that Paradox games have started up a download service.

People always say wait a few months and games will be $20, but that is usually never the case. They usually stay at $50 for a pretty long time judging from my experience.

Oh and if you think PC gaming is dying take a look at this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=24525221)

Didn't know there are THAT many games in production. Only thing it doesn't show is the HOI2:DD Armageddon booster pack, the Warhammer 40k games nor The Longest Journey: Episodes & the "modern day" Funcom MMORPG.

One thing, I can pick up older games (by some years) for 10 £/15 USD, but that is typically Diablo II, Fallout II and the likes. Some of it is excellent quality, even if very old. And then you have the freak offers like Il-2 Sturmovik.

[Glock23]

The difference between car theft, home theft, and intellectual property theft is that while there are a finite number of cars and home property items, there can be an infinite number of completely identical copies made of any piece of software out there.

And then businesses want people to pay for an idea (which is all software really is) and the ability to use this idea, a string of ones and zeroes, simply because they, the companies, think it's their right?

How does that work?

In market where there is infinite product, there should be no demand, right? Simple economics. Yet there is profit in software. How is that? By artificially creating a market, no? So how does one go about creating a market? By creating penalties for use you find unfair or unprofitable of said product, and getting the government to go along.

So software companies create artificial demand, by claiming they own the ideas, and then claim it is their right to sell their product at an artificially high price in their artificial market. Then they get the government to back them up, so they can potentially put away a person who pirates a piece of data for longer than a convicted rapist.

Sounds pretty fair, huh?

Software is ideas, ideas are supposed to be free.

Idealism aside, your arguments are pretty shaky, RU. Your claim that piracy is not a business model is seriously undermined by your fervent desire for people to cease copyright infringement. And there's no way you can compare copyright infringement to grand theft auto or grand larceny/breaking and entering, because if the latter two were done on the scale that the first one is done, 20% of the US would have 1000 cars a piece, and as many pairs of shoes, slacks, and rings they could fit into their grubby fingers.

Pretty sure that's not happening.

If piracy is simply a crime, and not a business model, why go to such great lengths to tell people not to do it? Why beg and whine and sue little kids and grandparents and mothers and fathers who have no idea what exactly they're being sued for, and then extort settlements out of them to fund your legal battles? The car industry doesn't make regular cries to the government each year for stiffer auto theft laws; and if they do, noone hears about it. The home security industry doesn't make regular cries each year for stiffer breaking and entering rules, either.

So why does the software industry? It couldn't be that they feel the pressure from a business model they are incapable of competing with, could it? Free is hard to compete with, really, when your whole economy is artificial. And since software companies are so dead-set on protecting their product instead of changing their paradigm, they look like they're being even more unreasonable when they do all the crazy things they do, like beg and sue and lawyer.

Rage, if you're going to take the moral high ground here, then you should stick by your principles. How can some copyright infringement be ok because it's just music and porn, but other kinds aren't ok because it's games? Is it cause you work there, and don't want to shit where you eat? Ok, I understand that.

But objectively, does that make games somehow less worthy of infringement than music or porn? Are games better? Is music and porn worse? Sounds to me that, by you saying it's slightly more ok to pirate music and porn than it is to pirate games and other software, you're making a value judgement against porn and music, and the people who work in those industries, for everyone you advocate this policy to.

You want to convince me that I should not infringe copyright? Delete any music you haven't purchased. Even delete backed-up music from CD's, as that's not legal under the current interpretations of the DCMA. Destroy all hard copies of backed-up software, CD's, DVD's, and uninstall anything you didn't pay for or doesn't come with a GPL/BSD license. Read those licenses to ensure that you're using the software it came attached to correctly. Read all your EULAs you've ever agreed to to ensure you're using them correctly.

Don't preach to us about not pirating without being the shining example.

[marty]

How does that work?You're paying the company for the labor. Halflife didn't make itself.

In market where there is infinite product, there should be no demand, right? Simple economics.Oversimplified economics. The supply doesn't come out of nowhere

Yet there is profit in software. How is that?Because software has to be made by people.

By artificially creating a market, no? So how does one go about creating a market? By creating penalties for use you find unfair or unprofitable of said product, and getting the government to go along.If everyone worked for free, it would be very difficult to support the industry. The open source movement is an alternative, but it's not viable by itself. Even then, open source isn't necessarily not-for-profit, because a lot of the time open source only means (in let's say, a first person shooter) the engine, but not the artwork.

So software companies create artificial demand, by claiming they own the ideas, and then claim it is their right to sell their product at an artificially high price in their artificial market.They're pricing it so that they can afford to keep a staff of programmers and art people.

Then they get the government to back them up, so they can potentially put away a person who pirates a piece of data for longer than a convicted rapist.

Sounds pretty fair, huh?Pirates don't go to jail, they're sued in civil court. They pay out compensatory damages for causing the software developers to lose money and pay punitive damages if they're being dicks.

Software is ideas, ideas are supposed to be free.Software is work. Work isn't free. Not even in communistm

Idealism aside, your arguments are pretty shaky, RU. Your claim that piracy is not a business model is seriously undermined by your fervent desire for people to cease copyright infringement. And there's no way you can compare copyright infringement to grand theft auto or grand larceny/breaking and entering, because if the latter two were done on the scale that the first one is done, 20% of the US would have 1000 cars a piece, and as many pairs of shoes, slacks, and rings they could fit into their grubby fingers.

Pretty sure that's not happening.He was illustrating that piracy was like theft. Which it is and isn't. That's why you don't go to jail for copyright infringement, you get sued by the wronged party.

If piracy is simply a crime, and not a business model, why go to such great lengths to tell people not to do it?Does not follow. I don't understand what this sentence is trying to say.

Why beg and whine and sue little kids and grandparents and mothers and fathers who have no idea what exactly they're being sued forI don't think you know how it works. What happens is that they find out who is uploading games based on evidence, then if they think the evidence is high enough, they sue. Getting sued is no big deal. It's almost like getting verbally accused. You then go to court and defend yourself.

Notice that the grannies, kids, and mothers and fathers who really didn't know what was going on don't get in trouble.

, and then extort settlements out of them to fund your legal battles?What settlements?

The car industry doesn't make regular cries to the government each year for stiffer auto theft laws; and if they do, noone hears about it.Car thieves don't steal directly from the dealership

The home security industry doesn't make regular cries each year for stiffer breaking and entering rules, either.Yeah, because they make money from the concept.

So why does the software industry? It couldn't be that they feel the pressure from a business model they are incapable of competing with, could it?Explain how it's a business model again? You're using some kind of logical fallacy here.

Free is hard to compete with, really, when your whole economy is artificial.Explain how it's artificial

And since software companies are so dead-set on protecting their product instead of changing their paradigmAnd what is their current paradigm? People who put work into something should get paid? What exactly is the alternative to that?

, they look like they're being even more unreasonable when they do all the crazy things they do, like beg and sue and lawyer.This is a bullshit statement

Rage, if you're going to take the moral high ground here, then you should stick by your principles. How can some copyright infringement be ok because it's just music and pornHe didn't say it was okay, he said he had a vice.

, but other kinds aren't ok because it's games?Well, he didn't say the first thing was okay, so it kind of blows this out of the water, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it to games because it's got something to do with his industries. Lots of people are like that, if they can see the direct damage something causes, they're less likely to do it.

Is it cause you work there, and don't want to shit where you eat? Ok, I understand that.

But objectively, does that make games somehow less worthy of infringement than music or porn? Are games better? Is music and porn worse? Sounds to me that, by you saying it's slightly more ok to pirate music and porn than it is to pirate games and other software, you're making a value judgement against porn and music, and the people who work in those industries, for everyone you advocate this policy to.You're making something out of nothing. He merely said that yes, he does pirate other things, and he knows its bad. That has nothing to do with his arguments.

You want to convince me that I should not infringe copyright? Delete any music you haven't purchased. Even delete backed-up music from CD's, as that's not legal under the current interpretations of the DCMA. Destroy all hard copies of backed-up software, CD's, DVD's, and uninstall anything you didn't pay for or doesn't come with a GPL/BSD license. Read those licenses to ensure that you're using the software it came attached to correctly. Read all your EULAs you've ever agreed to to ensure you're using them correctly.

Don't preach to us about not pirating without being the shining example.That's a logical fallacy

[Enforcer]

http://smbc-comics.com/comics/20070314.gif

[DasHuhn]

RU, you cannot compare downloading a game to see if you enjoy it to stealing a car to see if you want to buy it. Especially if those people are going to go buy said game.

I download games, play it for awhile, then decide whether or not it's worth it to buy. I have downloaded 9 games, and i have bought 7 of them. (I didn't like NWN1 or 2)

For example: I downloaded Warcraft 3. I tested it out for about an hour and a half. Then, i went to the store, and bought WC1-3, all the expansions. From that, i also bought Diablo 1&2, and have been playing WoW since day#1, and have been paying for at least 1 account (and as many as 3) since then. Why am i a horrible person for pirating that 1 game? They didn't lose any money. They made quite a bit of money. They're continuing to make money off of me, and will, month after month, until i cannot afford it (ha!), i finally get bored of it (not very likely), or they shut down.

[Captain Colon]

Rage is just mad because he can't accept that some people think his hard work isn't worth their hard-earned money :)

That's my take on pirating. You'd be hard-pressed to make a game that I think is worth paying money for, when I have many many better things to spend my limited supply of money on. If it's easy to get a pirated copy then I will, if not then I just won't play it, I could care less. All your analogies so far are incredibly flimsy, you're basically saying that we should buy all the games and if they end up sucking then oh well we're out $50, but at least we can say that we were good people and didn't test it first!

[marty]

Well, I think you guys are actually worthless cunts, then, who deserve nothing good from this world.

[DasHuhn]

Well, I think you guys are actually worthless cunts, then, who deserve nothing good from this world.

Because i don't like to buy a product i cannot stand and would not have bought, if i had known what piles of shit they were makes me a worthless cunt? Despite the fact that I'm more than willing to buy these things. I own the large majority of the 'illegal' things that are own my computer. But, because i have downloaded 2 games (and played them for an hour, each) and deleted them and have never looked back at them.

Oh, ok. Glad to have cleared that up.

[marty]

Because i don't like to buy a product i cannot stand and would not have bought, if i had known what piles of shit they were makes me a worthless cunt?Word it any way you want, but yes. You want something that costs something for free. You justify it by saying "oh, it sucked anyway"

"That cake I took from your bakery sucked, it wasn't worth anything to me. Trust me, even if I hadn't taken it, no one would have bought it anyway."

Now tell me, if the above sentence was factual. Aka, the cake actually sucked ass, would it still have been "okay"?

Despite the fact that I'm more than willing to buy these things.Get off your high horse, you goddamn idiot.

"I TOOK YOUR CAR, YEAH, BUT I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT IT FROM YOU IF IT DIDN'T SUCK."

I own the large majority of the 'illegal' things that are own my computer.This sentence is meaningless, because it doesn't actually say anything. Just godawful retarded wordplay

"I actually legally own the things I downloaded, it tells you two things about my stupid self:

1) LOL, LOOK PROOF THAT I AM A PRINCIPLED THIEF. I BUY THINGS I LIKE AFTER I STEAL THEM.

2) MY POINT IS MEANINGLESS BECAUSE I STOLE BEFORE I BOUGHT AND A "LARGE MAJORITY" MEANS THERE IS A "SMALL MINORITY" I DON'T ACTUALLY OWN."

But, because i have downloaded 2 games (and played them for an hour, each) and deleted them and have never looked back at them.

Oh, ok. Glad to have cleared that up.Means you're the goddamned reason Game Developers don't respect Gamers anymore. Star Force didn't come out of nowhere. It's because of assholes like you that force the Shareware model on creative people that didn't set up their system that way.

News Flash: If you want to download the full game to "try", get shareware. But guess what? That business model has been dead for 10 years.

You can do one of three things:

1) Download the demo and base it off there
2) Download the game and don't kid yourself -- you're doing something wrong :rolleyes:
3) Buy the game and cross your fingers the reviews (or game boxes) don't lie :rolleyes:


Okay, now why don't you admit that you are a worthless cunt (a worthless cunt being an uncreative asshole that leeches off of the hard work of others then dismisses them as "not worth it" after you pirate their game) instead of trying to justify yourself with your crappy self-fellating logic?

[pk!]

Copying a game is not the same as copying music, or commercial software.

Real musicians can make a very good living from performances and tv appearances even if they didn't sell a single record. For example the not particularly sucessful rock band New Model Army made a profit of over 500,000 out of one tour a couple of years ago - my ex brother in law is their tour manager. A really famous band makes a lot more. A loss in album sales doesn't mean the end of the world.

Commercial software e.g. Photoshop is highly priced but makes sales to the corporate market. Adobe unofficially tolerates piracy because it is the best way to make sure that everyone uses their product - and when they start a business, they'll buy a legitimate copy. Adobe doesn't use out because their is a high user base supported by corporate licences.

But if you pirate a game, the developer has no other way of getting their money. If sales fail they can't go on the road and sell T-shirts in the interval. Large corporations rarely purchase volume licences for games.

It costs about £25 for a brand new game. Even a minimum wage desk monkey can earn that in 4 hours. Even someone on welfare can afford a new game every other week and still have 80% of their income to spend elsewhere. It's really not that expensive when you consider the hundreds of hours of play in most games.

Summary - pirating music might actually be a good thing as it encourages more live perfrmances. Pirating software can also be in the dev's interests. Pirating a game means somebody like you is out of a job, and you are out one sequel.

[Captain Colon]

yeah maybe now they'll have to get a job that's actually useful to society loloollolodkfagoadooooooooooofl

I was actually thinking about that last week when I was pissed off about having no money and thinking about how sweet it would be if I could just get everything for free, but then I realized there would be no incentive for the entertainment industry to exist.

[DasHuhn]

Word it any way you want, but yes. You want something that costs something for free. You justify it by saying "oh, it sucked anyway"
If i was taking it, using it as often as i wanted, and then discarding it when i no longer liked it, then yes. I would agree that something is wrong. Similarly, if i bought a game, found out i hated it, and could return it to the store to trade it in for something else, than yes, i would agree that it is wrong.

Since i actually have 'real world' things to take care of (insurance, tuition, books, gas, life) i'm rather stringent on where i'd like to spend my money. I don't want to spend my money on a game that's a rehash of all of it's previous games (Look at: Battlefield).

"I TOOK YOUR CAR FOR A TEST DRIVE, YEAH, BUT I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT IT FROM YOU IF IT DIDN'T SUCK."
Fixed.

2) MY POINT IS MEANINGLESS BECAUSE I STOLE BEFORE I BOUGHT AND A "LARGE MAJORITY" MEANS THERE IS A "SMALL MINORITY" I DON'T ACTUALLY OWN."[/i]


The 'small minority' of things i don't own, i have here for my work. They took it upon themselves to tell one of our clients that we would be willing to keep a back-up of their data. My boss told me I'd be the one to do this. I said ok. Since i do not own any of that, i cannot say i have it 'legally'.

Means you're the goddamned reason Game Developers don't respect Gamers anymore. Star Force didn't come out of nowhere. It's because of assholes like you that force the Shareware model on creative people that didn't set up their system that way.

'assholes like me'? Oh, i was unaware i wasn't still buying the actual games. Silly for me to forgot, letting them make a profit and all. GOD I'M AN ASSHOLE.

1) Download the demo and base it off there
2) Download the game and don't kid yourself -- you're doing something wrong :rolleyes:
3) Buy the game and cross your fingers the reviews (or game boxes) don't lie :rolleyes:
Sorry, i still don't see what i'm doing is some-how wrong. It enables me to buy games that i otherwise wouldn't buy, allowing them to make even more money.

What's the difference between this, and me going to a friends house to play it? Someone has bought it, i'm borrowing it for a short time, and based upon that borrowing i will (or will not) purchase it, with the track record being 7 bought, 2 not-bought.

[marty]

If i was taking it, using it as often as i wanted, and then discarding it when i no longer liked it, then yes. I would agree that something is wrong. Similarly, if i bought a game, found out i hated it, and could return it to the store to trade it in for something else, than yes, i would agree that it is wrong.Then you're a lucky bitch then, aren't you?

Ever since Steam came out, you could occasionally try out full versions of games for a day or two before you would decide to buy it. You couldn't do it in the old model, because there's just no way you could return the CDs to the store after you've opened the box and installed it.

"Trust me, I didn't keep the CD key, just put it back up on the shelf"

Since i actually have 'real world' things to take care of (insurance, tuition, books, gas, life) i'm rather stringent on where i'd like to spend my money. I don't want to spend my money on a game that's a rehash of all of it's previous games (Look at: Battlefield).Boohoo

"I'm a responsible adult. It is okay to download games."

You could, you know NOT buy Battlefield and NOT download it either.

Fixed.Fallacious and idiotic self-fellating. With test drives, the dealership gives you permission.

The 'small minority' of things i don't own, i have here for my work. They took it upon themselves to tell one of our clients that we would be willing to keep a back-up of their data. My boss told me I'd be the one to do this. I said ok. Since i do not own any of that, i cannot say i have it 'legally'.You're a shitty person to discuss things with:

1) You make a "feint" -- claim that you own most games on your computer with a vague remark
2) Turns out your remark doesn't even have anything to do with games -- you're brought in something that was unrelated and a worthless tangent that has cost us at least 3 paragraphs.

I'd rather spend that time looking at dongs.

'assholes like me'? Oh, i was unaware i wasn't still buying the actual games. Silly for me to forgot, letting them make a profit and all. GOD I'M AN ASSHOLE.Well, why do I bother? You can't seem to put it through your thick skull that downloading for a "test drive" is not okay, and not completely mitigated by buying "what you like". Even if you deleted the ones you don't buy anyway.

Sorry, i still don't see what i'm doing is some-how wrong.I can see that :rolleyes:

It enables me to buy games that i otherwise wouldn't buy, allowing them to make even more money.Why don't you email them to use Steam and free days instead of downloading it?

What's the difference between this, and me going to a friends house to play it? Someone has bought it, i'm borrowing it for a short time, and based upon that borrowing i will (or will not) purchase it, with the track record being 7 bought, 2 not-bought.Who owns your friend's copy? Who owns your downloaded copy? Was the game distributed in the shareware business model?

[Captain Colon]

NEWS FLASH: PEOPLE APPARENTLY HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS OF RIGHT AND WRONG!!!11121!!!1

FILM AT ELEVEN OH WAIT NOBODY GIVES A FUCK

[DasHuhn]

Ever since Steam came out, you could occasionally try out full versions of games for a day or two before you would decide to buy it. You couldn't do it in the old model, because there's just no way you could return the CDs to the store after you've opened the box and installed it.
Hrm, in order to do that, i thought that you had to own HL2? Well, to play any of these - they all required owning HL2. I haven't bought HL2 - nor will i buy HL2 until WaW or FA:S comes out. At that point, i will (gasp) illegally download half-life 2 to try out the mod. If i hate it, I delete HL2 and move on with my life. If i love the mod, I'll go out and pay whatever the price for HL2 is.

You could, you know NOT buy Battlefield and NOT download it either.

Hey, look what i decided to do. I'm never going to buy another BF game, nor am i going to ever download it again. I'm not going to delete the 2 discs of BF that i did download, as i have lost the 2 that i downloaded. The same idea applies to the disc 4 of World of Warcraft i downloaded - that disc is now corrupt. Now, i know what you're going to say - i should contact EA, and pay them to ship me a disc of something that i already own. Well, i already own it. I believe i should be able to make a copy of it.


You're a shitty person to discuss things with:

1) You make a "feint" -- claim that you own most games on your computer with a vague remark
2) Turns out your remark doesn't even have anything to do with games -- you're brought in something that was unrelated and a worthless tangent that has cost us at least 3 paragraphs.

I'd rather spend that time looking at dongs.

Awesome. I'd also like to point out that i own all of the games on my computer. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dongs&btnG=Google+Search)

Well, why do I bother? You can't seem to put it through your thick skull that downloading for a "test drive" is not okay, and not completely mitigated by buying "what you like". Even if you deleted the ones you don't buy anyway.

Once again, why isn't it Ok? Because you say it's not Ok? I test it out, i see exactly what the product is, I get to decide whether or not it's worth buying the product. I can do this SAME system without downloading it, downloading it does make it a little easier. Also, how is it not completely mitigated? Did they lose profit due to me downloading it, and then going out and buying their product?

Why don't you email them to use Steam and free days instead of downloading it?

Steam is not something i use. Therefore, them using Steam doesn't exactly help me.

Who owns your friend's copy? Who owns your downloaded copy? Was the game distributed in the shareware business model?

My friend. My friend. No.

[Captain Colon]

Once again, why isn't it Ok? Because you say it's not Ok? I test it out, i see exactly what the product is, I get to decide whether or not it's worth buying the product. I can do this SAME system without downloading it, downloading it does make it a little easier. Also, how is it not completely mitigated? Did they lose profit due to me downloading it, and then going out and buying their product?
I agree with this and I don't see why everyone's all bent out of shape about it. I can understand Rage's "just admit you're stealing it" thing even if I think it's retarded. I can't really tell if marty's trying to make the same point or if he's just mad because you didn't get boned by paying for a game that ended up being shitty.