Fighting

[neko]

I have a really specific question about fighting. When you go and kick someone and they grab your leg or foot before it connects, how do you get out of that without then taking advantage of the situation you are in? I have always wondered this but never figured it out.

[theknightsofni]

jump up with your other leg and spin it round to kick their head

[MGCeilidh]

I have a really specific question about fighting...

Saturday night is alright for it by all accounts...


Hat, coat, door...

When you go and kick someone and they grab your leg or foot before it connects, how do you get out of that without then taking advantage of the situation you are in? I have always wondered this but never figured it out.

In general its best to aim kicks against someone on their guard at the knee for precisely that reason. Once someone with half a clue gets you in that position you are in trouble barring some increadibly athletic but high risk jumpy spinny kick thing with the other foot at their head which is probibly doomed to failure unless your firstname is Charles and your last name rhymes with Boris...

[Teedy]

The spin kick works but most people can't do that so, pushing your whole body weight into them usually works. They drop your leg and stumble back, giving you great opportunity to lay it on. :D

[proudinfidel117]

I have a really specific question about fighting. When you go and kick someone and they grab your leg or foot before it connects, how do you get out of that without then taking advantage of the situation you are in? I have always wondered this but never figured it out.

you pull your glock and tell them to "Step BACK, MF'ER!!"

[BattleWhack]

Kicking isn't advisable in the first place. Depending on your fighting style. My advice would be to learn a few choice grappling movies and rely on groundfighting, with some knee's elbow's thrown in. Have you ever been elbowed? It fucking hurts.

And an overwhelmingly majority of fights end up on the ground anyway. Don't be one of those silly fuckers that flail your arms around and call it punching. Someone does that do me, they get an arm broken :)

[Teedy]

Don't be afraid to lay the hammer down. It's a fight and somebody is going to end up hurt. It's not about being brave or strong or honourable. It's about beating the other fighter and not getting hurt badly yourself. There's no such thing as fighting dirty either, it's a fight, do what comes to your mind. And scream, maniacally and scream insane things like "I'LL EAT YOUR FUCKING EYES WITH KETCHUP" over and over, it freaks people out and they make mistakes.



By lay the hammer down, I mean kick him in the balls. :D

[proudinfidel117]

Don't be afraid to lay the hammer down. It's a fight and somebody is going to end up hurt. It's not about being brave or strong or honourable. It's about beating the other fighter and not getting hurt badly yourself. There's no such thing as fighting dirty either, it's a fight, do what comes to your mind. And scream, maniacally and scream insane things like "I'LL EAT YOUR FUCKING EYES WITH KETCHUP" over and over, it freaks people out and they make mistakes.



By lay the hammer down, I mean kick him in the balls. :D

i always thought " ILL EAT YOUR FUCKING CHILDREN WHILE THEY"RE STILL SUCKING ON YOUR OVARIES!" was a good one

[MGCeilidh]

...It's not about being brave or strong or honourable. It's about beating the other fighter and not getting hurt badly yourself...

To further elaborate on this theme if when it all kicks off you are not at bare minimum looking to leave the other guy in traction eating through a tube you are a victim waiting to happen...

This mindset needs to be coupled with a sensible judgement as to when and where force is the correct option...

[Dave]

Barring the spinny kick thing I'd just jerk my foot until it was released. It's probably never to get into that situation in the first place though.

[nojmaster]

If his arms are holding your leg, lean forward and stick your thumbs in his eyesockets.

[FaKToR]

My advice would be to learn a few choice grappling movies and rely on groundfighting, with some knee's elbow's thrown in. Have you ever been elbowed? It fucking hurts.

And an overwhelmingly majority of fights end up on the ground anyway. Don't be one of those silly fuckers that flail your arms around and call it punching. Someone does that do me, they get an arm broken :)

I'd guess keeping your distance would be best. Once you get in grappling it could be hard to get out, especially if they turn out to be better at it than you. There's also the risk of them pulling a weapon (I'm meaning something like a knife) out and it's generally nice to have a head start should that happen.

[BlindSite]

Neko, this might sound kind of harsh, but dude, you're not built to be a fighter. My advice to you would be to run.

If you have to fight, you need to learn to be a dirty cunt. My dad was built like you and he never lost a street fight because he would gouge eyes, grip nuts and head butt. That's your arena.

Learn to headbutt. Theres no better offense than a move that will pacify even the most experinced fighter. A heabutt is the be all and end all. Aim for the nose and smash the fucking thing.

The last 2 times i was in a fight I just grounded and pounded. Shoulder tackle or a grapple to get them on the ground and then ruin their shit. I'm built for that though.

In a fight, never kick above the waist. Its hollywood bullshit. If someone grabs your leg, like you're talking about, you're fucked. They can trip you, push you and do what ever they want to you. You're better off trying for a headbutt and then using your knees.

Knees, Elbows and Foreheads, three hardest parts of the body and very effective in shit ruining.

[Teedy]

Elbows being the best of all out of those three since they're nigh impossible to break and have no sensory nerves, you can slice one open and hardly feel it. :D

[Captain Colon]

but what if you slice your funnybone open :(

[neko]

Neko, this might sound kind of harsh, but dude, you're not built to be a fighter. My advice to you would be to run.

I'm not talking about myself fighting, I was just wondering. Which is why I said "I have always wondered this"

[BlindSite]

Oh, my bad. Well try it... Just try hopping on one leg with the length of your other leg away from a punching bag then try hitting it... Then imagine the person you tried to kick exceptionally pissed off wanting to do stuff to you.

[Gopats]

This is felony fights! Glendale (fuck you)

[Garryowen]

so violent.....

[kreket]

Here is some further study of groundfighting:

http://www.myspace.com/panicpulse

Scroll down for some youtube videos. I think this is pg13? :D

[MGCeilidh]

so violent.....

I bet it warms you to the sub-cockles of your black and twisted heart...

[Hocus Pocus]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?

[FaKToR]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?
Sissy slap them as hard as you can?

[Teedy]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?

Come over and I'll take advantage of you. ;)

[Hocus Pocus]

ewwwwwwwwwww buttsex

[Walnut]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?

Don't let people get near you...

[MGCeilidh]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?

Based on what you said about your body type my advice would be to try and learn some Muay Thai, the real stuff, elbow and knee strikes, cinch fighting etc not the sanitised stuff...

Get a basic grounding in judo for a few throws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nage_waza#Leg_reaps_and_trips) and learn them well, mix in to what you are doing with the Muay Thai...

[kreket]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?



Being built to run is an advantage in it's own. Many a poor sod didn't retreat fast enough from superior numbers. And truly unprovoked fights tends to be about 5-6 idiots standing around you, trying to trick you into a "provocation".



And be sure that you understand that you should never, ever, assault a person running them down. You run away from a situation you didn't cause, by running them down and running away if you have no other choice. (Ie, they are surrounding you, edging you on.)

[MGCeilidh]

And be sure that you understand that you should never, ever, assault a person running them down. You run away from a situation you didn't cause...

QFE

+1

etc

[FaKToR]

And be sure that you understand that you should never, ever, assault a person running them down.

I've been looking at this sentence and for the life of me I can't make sense of it.

[Reveller]

lean inwards and lay into them on the eye and throat (haha throat punches suck)

[Hocus Pocus]

lean inwards and lay into them on the eye and throat (haha throat punches suck)

right in the adam's apple right?

[Daywalker]

i have to put in that I agree there is no such thing as a dirty fighter. Its a fucking fight, do what you have to. If you didn't start it, you have no reason to be "honorable". Its just an excuse for people that get owned because they didn't seize the advantage when they had it.

[Teedy]

I can't agree more or emphasize that again. I'd have no shame in going for the balls scratching biting or anything else. If it means I don't get as badly hurt etc. then anything goes damnit.

[Lord Kelvin]

To answer the original post, I'd surmise that to grab your kick, they'd have to use both hands, which leaves you free to use both your hands to do some damage to their upper body. The reversal kick sounds somewhat risky, since they could let go of your other leg at any time and you'd lose momentum real fast.

[PsychoMantis]

I've been looking at this sentence and for the life of me I can't make sense of it.

It means don't chase down someone running away from you; more importantly if you didn't start the fight. Although I admit in a fit of indignity it would be quite satisfying to let them know further not to cause trouble with you.

Kelvin, once they have control of your foot, it doesn't matter that their hands are occupied. You can't reach them with your own hands thus struggling or that reverse kick are about the only ways to go; they have complete control over you and can either embarrass you if spectators are around or just knock you over for a few more easy hits. It's just a bad situation.

[GrosPoisson]

I'd have to agree that having someone trap your leg is the last place you want to be. At best, the opponent will stop you from moving and get some shots in. At worst, he'll use your leg as a lever to snap some part of it. Sure, plenty of martial arts will tell you that you get a lot of power from extending your arms and legs out in the strikes and kicks they prescribe, but at the same time you have to take into account there are serious downsides.

Even if you don't get a leg trapped by the opponent, if they're decent they could always dodge the kick and if you're still all stretched out kick your other leg out from under you. If you have to kick, keep the strikes fast, compact, and make the time from extension to strike to your "neutral" fighting stance as short as possible.

The solution I would suggest is find a fighting style or just a few choice moves that would work for you against opponents of bigger size that you know you could reliably pull off in high-stress situations.

[FaKToR]

It means don't chase down someone running away from you; more importantly if you didn't start the fight. Although I admit in a fit of indignity it would be quite satisfying to let them know further not to cause trouble with you.

BY running them down. For god sakes use a preposition.

[Teedy]

For god's sake don't be a grammar nazi.



GODWIN INVOKED, THREAD PWNT.

[kreket]

BY running them down. For god sakes use a preposition.

Understood.

[FaKToR]

For god's sake don't be a grammar nazi.



GODWIN INVOKED, THREAD PWNT.

Hardly, I have no idea what he means without the "by" in there. Hell even with the that it's still a rather vague statement.

[[Political] Slayer]

depends on how they got your leg... if you kick with your right leg, and hold it against their left side (assuming they are facing you), I would go straight to the ground, and wrap my other leg around thier right side, and lock your feet together. You got them in the guard, a dominant position in ju-jitsu. You can work from there, and you might actually have the upper hand because you will most likely have their arm that they grabbed your leg with locked into thier side, rendering it useless.

heres a video on how to get him into an arm bar from the guard, and do the arm bar hard enougha nd you will pop his shoulder out of place D:

http://www.jiujitsuforums.com/v_armlocks.php?id=arm_bar_from_scissor_sweep

[MGCeilidh]

What happens when his 3 friends take their steel toed boots to your head?

I'm a Judoka (or I used to be before I moved to the arse end of the Budo world) I LOVE groundfighting but in general "on the streets" going to ground is a bad plan....

[[Political] Slayer]

what happens if he doesnt have 3 friends with steel toed boots D:

[MGCeilidh]

Slayer;572137']what happens if he doesnt have 3 friends with steel toed boots D:

What if he does but you didn't notice them lurking in the shadows?

What if they arrive while you are tied up on the floor?

Best practice is generally avoid the floor...

[[Political] Slayer]

that is true, it just seems like the easiest way to get out of that situation, and get back on your feet. I bet it would suprise the fuck out of the attacker.

[MGCeilidh]

machete + face = something productive.
british solid wood riot baton + face = something productive.

Reminds me of a joke a rugby team mate of mine at university told...

How do you get a clown off a swing?

Hit him in the face with an axe!!!

[Col. Psycho]

dont forget your shins are solid, but the nerves involved cause alot of pain. think muay thai - they train to kick with thier shins to the point that a good fighter could brake your leg by hitting your leg with his shin, and he wont feel it.


but yeah, elbows, knees, forehead, knuckles, whatever, if you know where to put the attacks, then you will take the other guy down. the grappling thing, although works some of the time, is a bullshit way of fighting. i prefer to get into a fist fight over a grappling gay fight any day of the week, however its always good to be prepared for anything.

[Gopats]

I can't agree more or emphasize that again. I'd have no shame in going for the balls scratching biting or anything else. If it means I don't get as badly hurt etc. then anything goes damnit.
At that point everyone turns to eachother and says "hahahaha hes trying to win a fight by scratching the guy"

[Teedy]

Hey, if you win, who cares?

[Daywalker]

knee the guy in the balls, who cares what other people say. Get in a fight with them and go for the groin, eventually all those tough guys will be crying for momma, then kick dirt in their face.

[OMFG it g00]

knee the guy in the balls, who cares what other people say. Get in a fight with them and go for the groin, eventually all those tough guys will be crying for momma, then kick dirt in their face.

also if you can knee them in the face when the double over, its hella painful, and psychologically traumatising

[CaptCommy]

Yeah, almost all one on one fights end up grappling and/or on the ground. Thinking you can win just by punching is a great way to lose.

[Daywalker]

..Thinking you can win just by punching is a great way to lose.

If you go for the nuts, eyes, face, any thing will make you win.

[BlindSite]

This should be a no brainer, but the best place to stab a man is just below the sternum with your knife angle up, if on the ground and on top of your oponent, if you can pull your knife do so, angle it forward and use your body weight to thrust the knife into him. Besides slitting the throat from behind an oponent you can also thrust the blade of a knife directly below the ball on the back of their neck and that should instantly kill him. The weakest point of the rib cage is on the sides, so if you have to stab someone in the ribs do it in an upward angle roughly 6-8 inches below the armpit. That should pierce their heart. When punching the head to kill and not inflict pain, it should go without saying you want to pound the fuck out of your enemies temple with a hard object. (A rock or brick comes to mind, or a baton if you have one. You could use your pistol too, or rifle... or the hilt of a knife...) The ears and nose are the easiest places on the face to inflict pain, so when trying to get an opponent off of you try pounding an ear with your fist, if you do it hard enough it'll not only hurt but make him dizzy/knock him off balance. When standing strike an opponents ear with the palm of your hand and using your moment make a rapid whiplash motion (sideways and not front to back) with his head, while he's disoriented grab him by his head and swing his body by it. Where the head goes, the body will follow. You can bring your opponent off his feet and send him spinning to the ground. He'll be disoriented from the blow to the head, the pressure you put on him while squeezing his temples, and the roll to the ground... he should recover very slowly at which point you can stomp him, smash him with a bludgeon, or simply shoot the fucker if you've got ammo....

I want your children... ALL OF THEM

[Scraps]

This should be a no brainer, but the best place to stab a man is just below the sternum with your knife angle up, if on the ground and on top of your oponent, if you can pull your knife do so, angle it forward and use your body weight to thrust the knife into him. Besides slitting the throat from behind an oponent you can also thrust the blade of a knife directly below the ball on the back of their neck and that should instantly kill him. The weakest point of the rib cage is on the sides, so if you have to stab someone in the ribs do it in an upward angle roughly 6-8 inches below the armpit. That should pierce their heart. When punching the head to kill and not inflict pain, it should go without saying you want to pound the fuck out of your enemies temple with a hard object. (A rock or brick comes to mind, or a baton if you have one. You could use your pistol too, or rifle... or the hilt of a knife...) The ears and nose are the easiest places on the face to inflict pain, so when trying to get an opponent off of you try pounding an ear with your fist, if you do it hard enough it'll not only hurt but make him dizzy/knock him off balance. When standing strike an opponents ear with the palm of your hand and using your moment make a rapid whiplash motion (sideways and not front to back) with his head, while he's disoriented grab him by his head and swing his body by it. Where the head goes, the body will follow. You can bring your opponent off his feet and send him spinning to the ground. He'll be disoriented from the blow to the head, the pressure you put on him while squeezing his temples, and the roll to the ground... he should recover very slowly at which point you can stomp him, smash him with a bludgeon, or simply shoot the fucker if you've got ammo....

Remind me never to fuck with you,ever.

[Yiggs]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?

Man, you're a stick. You've got 1 inch on me and I'm 60 pounds heavier, and I'm not some big tub of lard either.

[Daywalker]

I'm 6'4 and 175 pounds (kinda skinny for my height) i got really long arms too, how do i take advantage of my build?



buy a gun

[pk!]

I've hardly ever got into a fight in all my adult life. Okay, I used to hang arounnd with some pretty tough people but maybe because of that things didn't kick off very often.

I'd guess that the best defense is to live in a fairly civilised place and have plenty of mates around to back you up. I was very lucky to live in Canterbury and have ex-Royal Marine Commando officers as friends. In a student town nobody starts anything and the biggest risk came from the squaddies on the hill (iirc they were the Princess of Wales Regt). As soon as they saw the Marines they were nice as pie. Funny that.

Any time it has come to blows, the best advice I can give is

-Do not use a weapon unless you carry one for your job. If you can't win a fight unarmed then psychologically you've lost already. Best to run away before they take your weapon away and kill you with it.

-Use minimum force but NO LESS. You don't want to put someone in a coma, no matter how much of a shit they are. That kind of stuff leads either to a feud or a jail cell. Your goal is to put them down then leave.

Your first line of defence is your voice. Using the correct tone and pitch you can persuade some people to sod off. You can also make passers-by aware of the situation - strangers are reluctant to pitch in if they think it's a 'domestic' so make it clear it isn't.

[Shadow]

Rabbit is one of the toughest motherfuckers I know that lives and breathes on this god-foresaken planet.

If you want advice from anyone in regards to fighting - weapons or not - Rabbit's your man. He's seen more shit than many on this board have, and hell, he's gonna see a lot more when he goes back to the sandbox.

If there was one guy I could choose to stand by me in combat, no matter how severe or violent it is, it'd be Rabbit. Love you, buddy! <3 :kak:

[Scraps]

Ok so Rabbit you are my hero.

[Feanaro]

I'd guess that the best defense is to live in a fairly civilised place and have plenty of mates around to back you up.

Be careful about relying on your "friends." I know someone who was attacked at a club. He had eight or so people he thought were friends with him. Not one of them attempted to stop the five guys that were beating up on him. Make damn sure they are GOOD friends.

What happens when his 3 friends take their steel toed boots to your head?

I'm a Judoka (or I used to be before I moved to the arse end of the Budo world) I LOVE groundfighting but in general "on the streets" going to ground is a bad plan....

Yep, the ground is a great place to get kicked to death.

[pk!]

My comment about minimum force - I still stand by that, with limits. If I'd gone all-out in every fight I'd either be dead or in jail for over a dozen murders by now. Most likely dead - I'm a lover not a fighter.

I remember once 2 of us had a run-in with a couple of guys when I had a rusty 3 foot long wood saw - I considered using it but common sense prevailed and we all lived to fight another day.

There are plenty of people serving life sentences in the UK for stabbing someone with a knife they took off their opponent.

I know someone who regularly gets the crap knocked out of him after trying to lamp someone with a weapon. Once he tried to brain someone with an iron bar hidden in a newspaper. He raised his arm for the swing, the bar dropped out and he was left hitting the guy with just a rolled up newspaper. So the guy turned round and threw him in the river. Another time he tried to spray oven cleaner in someone's face, had the spray turned round and blinded himself for 3 weeks. Then later he went out with a 2x4 to batter someone and some nightclub bouncers opposite noticed and knocked seven shades of shite out of him. Then there was the paving slab incident.... Basically, for this guy, weapons just didn't work out.

You're right about having the right kind of friends - I used to hang out with the Coldstream (Second to None) and later the Marines. These days my friends are involved in industries we don't discuss on the OTF and can handle themselves very well.

All of my (admittedly trivial) advice is best applied to civilian life in decent areas. In a military situation, follow your ROE, stay with your mates, and all will be well.

In a civilian incident that's more serious and you are in genuine fear for your life, well that's the time to call Rabbit.

[BlindSite]

Be careful about relying on your "friends." I know someone who was attacked at a club. He had eight or so people he thought were friends with him. Not one of them attempted to stop the five guys that were beating up on him. Make damn sure they are GOOD friends.



Yep, the ground is a great place to get kicked to death.

Yeah, on the friends thing, if I'm nothing else, I'm balls out loyal. I once got in between my friend and a guy twice my size who wanted to go him. I had a bottle in my hand behind my back and was about to use it when the bouncers grabbed the big dude and threw him out.

[Daywalker]

From Rabbits stories, and the little personal experience I've had, the right mentality is important. You lose when you give up, there are a lot of times when people could get back up and smash the guy with a muffler, but they just lie there instead.

[marty]

the Coldstream (Second to None)

http://www.fmft.net/archives/woodentop/coldstream-guards.jpg

I am NOT intimidated :gun:

[MGCeilidh]

...I was very lucky to live in Canterbury and have ex-Royal Marine Commando officers as friends. In a student town nobody starts anything and the biggest risk came from the squaddies on the hill (iirc they were the Princess of Wales Regt)...

Just noticed this...

I studied at UKC and played rugby for the Uni and For Canterbury with a couple of said squadies, nice guys...

Your right that it was rare for things to kick off down in town but up the hill in the bars on campus it was often a wee bit different, half of it was because we (the rugby team) acted like we owned the bars I'm sure but it seemed like it was always kicking off between us and the Greek boys, the Pakistinians, the soccer teams or the (insert any other group of males here)...

[Teedy]

Rabbit, you seriously scare the fuck out of me, even across the internets I just shit my pants. ;D

[Scraps]

It also goes a long way to seem as psychotic as you can before hand... or in the direct opposite so calm it's scary.

When I'm sober I usually don't say a word, when I'm drunk I start yelling things at the top of my lungs... I've even punched myself... I'll slobber and druel and almost foam at the mouth like I've got rabies. My yelling turns into half understandable jibberish. lol. I kinda freak myself out to be honest. The biggest morale degrader you can do is start laughing at someone after they punch you. I've done that several times, I can take a hit, and you have to really hit me hard to feel anything, and someone punch me in the face and I just busted out laughing... I was like, "Dude.... save your energy for defending yourself... because this is about to become a disgustingly one sided ass kicking contest...."

sigged.

[pk!]

Pictures of the Coldstream in action
The correct way to park a Saxon-
http://www.shinycapstar.com/Picture%20077.jpg
http://www.shinycapstar.com/Picture%20075.jpg


We are British and We Will Kill You
http://www.shinycapstar.com/2ndBnCyprus.jpg
http://www.reenact.com/become3.jpg


Some Americans like to dress up as Coldstream -
http://www.reenact.com/Corey_-_Bren.jpg

But IRL they look like this
http://www.shinycapstar.com/PottedSports5.jpg


edit - Canterbury UKC FTW! I used to smoke in Eliot College. I lived in St. Peter's Grove (near Westgate) and drank at the Cherry Tree and the Miller's Arms, back when it was still dodgy. I hear these days you can't even take your pint into the garden. Christ, I loved living in Canterbury.

[MGCeilidh]

Ok I have had it with the Rabbit love in...

*hits Rabbit in the head with a half-brick in a sock*

JK <3 to the Wabbit...

[Shadow]

I've been compared to a pitbull on PCP, by someone that totally kicked my fucking ass.... (Army hand-to-hand combat instructor)

Of course, people a lot bigger than me that I can take have said I'm more like a Chihuahua.... on PCP...

LMAO.

[Yiggs]

It's hard to imagine the people Pk! hangs out with when he looks like a college professor. :D

[pk!]

From left to right - Sgt, Lt, Pvt, Rifleman, Gunner, ex-Captain, ex-Corp, Lt.

About 20 years of service between us.

I am the skinny one in the hat.

[PsychoMantis]

From left to right - Sgt, Lt, Pvt, Rifleman, Gunner, ex-Captain, ex-Corp, Lt.

About 20 years of service between us.

I am the skinny one in the hat.

I did not ever picture you like that. I always expected a big yellow smilie.