scav blames lucky

[Shadow]

I blame lucky.

Last time I did that, I got yellow-carded.

[Shadow]

I blame lucky.

FOR THE SECOND TIME I'VE POSTED THIS

Last time I did that I GOT YELLOW CARDED with a WARNING of an "Ad Hominim" attack.

Please, Admins/Mods, don't censor my words. It's making you look a lot worse than you already do.

If you're going to have rules, for Christ's sakes, enforce them upon everyone or remove them. This double standards crap is bullshit.

For the record, I have a saved copy of this thread.

[Noirceur]

O boy...PF brought out the big guns.

[Shadow]

O boy...PF brought out the big guns.

Nah, dude. Just getting pretty pissed off with people deleting posts that don't harm people that provide evidence to double standards in action. IMHO it's ridiculous.

[Noirceur]

Nah, dude. Just getting pretty pissed off with people deleting posts that don't harm people that provide evidence to double standards in action. IMHO it's ridiculous.
Yeah; I do hate the selectiveness that the mods have with lucky-bashing. It's wrong, except when it's not.

[Steadman]

Hey, where's our facepalm emoticon?

[ScAvenger001]

Well, ok. Let's sort this out then.

First. The post I made that you cited was posted while that thread was still in the OTF, which has rather less stringent rules than the firebox. It was in response to a post by Ramirez that was deleted when the thread was moved:

Wow, this explains 4chan's sudden decrease of traffic. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, lucky used 4chan considerably.

Second. The "blame lucky" phrase has been a running joke with me ever since this thread (http://forums.worldatwarmod.com/showthread.php?p=235153#post235153) explaining the care and feeding of the reputation system, originally posted March 7, 2006 (while lucky was still here, and thus to his face). Some other notes:
*admins have a rep power of 50, regardless of anything else. So if you get a 25 point -rep of DEWM and you want to know where it came from, look at the forum leaders list for administrators and then blame Lucky.


Third. This is the text of the post you were warned for:

This disgusts me. It really does.

How have they not caught this guy yet? If he's struck on more than several occasions, there should be CCTV footage of him in the store being a (removable, albeit potent) dick.

Someone's gotta know who this smacktard is.

heh, it might be Lucky... he may have graduated paedo school. which is just a tad more directly inflammatory than what I posted.

Thank you.

[Chunkywheats]

Third. This is the text of the post you were warned for:

which is just a tad more directly inflammatory than what I posted.

Thank you.

I dunno, in either case, it seems like the same running joke is being made, but the wording is slightly different. If one is acceptable they should both be acceptable, imo.

where is the line going to be drawn between inflammatory and jest?

-e- but I also don't see what can be done about anything now, since no damage has been done. But maybe this should stand as an example of the double standard that *may* exist in other places, and we can all learn a lesson from it.

[MeanPatrick]

where is the line going to be drawn between inflammatory and jest?


Across your name.

[Noirceur]

I didn't really see how PF's post was any "more" inflammatory. It's quite obvious that PF doesn't actually think that Lucky is a pedo; we all joke about his massive lolita collection.

[Shadow]

I didn't really see how PF's post was any "more" inflammatory. It's quite obvious that PF doesn't actually think that Lucky is a pedo; we all joke about his massive lolita collection.

That's spot on the mark, mate. I don't give a ratfuck about his collections or that. What I care about is that jest or not, I got done for it, yet admins or mods can do it. Looks a bit like a double standard happening, and it shouldn't be.

[StandingCow]

He just explained to you the difference. To ME, your post sounds more like a bash on lucky that something done in jest.

What scav said sounds like the running joke that lucky was aware of.

That is just my personal opinion though... dude, it was a yellow card warning, you didn't get banned. Yes, I know you are trying to bash a admin/mod for a possible mistake because you guys just LOVE to catch us making mistakes.

EDIT: And looking at the definition: "An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument."

With our rule: "a. Rules interpretations by the forum staff take precedence, and the interpretations of the administrators are gospel." So, technically, scav is well covered. Does this mean we can do whatever we want? Of course not.

[PsychoMantis]

I have another question,
Why do we care if lucky is bashed or not? He IS an asshole, after all.

[StandingCow]

I have another question,
Why do we care if lucky is bashed or not? He IS an asshole, after all.

Meh, while valid it isn't the point of the argument.. people seem to think that scav went and told someone not to do something, then did it himself. They ignore the differences in the way it was said.

Seems to me the vultures of the OTF are just looking for shit to bitch about.

[Shadow]

Hey, hang on, I'm a Mil/Weaps forum-goer first and foremost, then comes the OTF. I'm not picking shit because I want to, I'm picking it because if I get dicked for something that was supposed to be an "ad hominim attack", which is exactly what scav did (albeit it was in jest, like mine - some people need to replace the batteries in the sarcasm detectors...), it certainly seems like there's allowances for mods/admins to break the rules they have implemented upon us lesser people.

What sort of a precendent does that set? :arr:

[Prowl]

yes we break the rules, people in authority always do.

however in this situation I see a difference between scav's "I blame lucky" (which is a long standing joke) and "heh, it might be Lucky... he may have graduated paedo school."

The first even if it wasn't a long standing in-joke, certainly isn't an ad hominem attack whereas the second is.

If you can't accept a yellow card (basically a slap on the wrists) then I suspect you have a major issue with authority.

Feel free to continue your moral crusade, however targeting admins doesn't really get you anywhere. Especially as these aren't the days of Lucky and the admin/mod team are a fairly cohesive group who at least attempt to do it by the book.

What outcome do you expect anyway? Scav isn't gonna be told off, he didn't do anything wrong. Your infraction will time out by the time we get bored arguing here. All you are likely to accomplish in the mean time is to use up any good will we may have left.

[Shadow]

yes we break the rules, people in authority always do.

however in this situation I see a difference between scav's "I blame lucky" (which is a long standing joke) and "heh, it might be Lucky... he may have graduated paedo school."

The first even if it wasn't a long standing in-joke, certainly isn't an ad hominem attack whereas the second is.

If you can't accept a yellow card (basically a slap on the wrists) then I suspect you have a major issue with authority.

Feel free to continue your moral crusade, however targeting admins doesn't really get you anywhere. Especially as these aren't the days of Lucky and the admin/mod team are a fairly cohesive group who at least attempt to do it by the book.

What outcome do you expect anyway? Scav isn't gonna be told off, he didn't do anything wrong. Your infraction will time out by the time we get bored arguing here. All you are likely to accomplish in the mean time is to use up any good will we may have left.

Figured this would be the response. A polite "Get fucked, we do as we please and make the rules up as we go for you guys but can't follow them ourselves because all leaders are corrupt."

You said it yourself...

heh, it might be Lucky... he may have graduated paedo school.

You want to get technical, Paedo means "Child".

So tell me, how can we little people respect rules if the admins/mods can't? I'm more than happy to follow any rules emplaced, just so long as the mods/admins who make them do so as well. I'm more than happy to accept a yellow card for my actions. What I'm not happy about is the fact that the moderation and administration of these forums is not consistant with the rules emplaced. If you're going to have rules, please enforce them upon everyone, not just a select group.

Oh, and don't tell me about authority, pal. If I had a problem with authority, then I wouldn't be serving in the military and advancing quite well, now would I? Maybe it is you who can't accept and repsect the responsibility that comes with authority.

You speak of good will, yet you say that every person in authority breaks the rules. A show of good will would be that you are prepared to follow the rules set in place, just like everyone else.

I smell a hypocracy in action here. All I ask for is a bit of consistancy, and not to start handing shit out when the admins do it themselves.

[StandingCow]

Peregrine, you make it sound like we always break the rules and never follow them, its totally blown out of proportion. And we have explained why we felt the way we did about the way each statement was said.

I don't think anything we say is going to make you happy... what do you want us to do?

[Shadow]

Peregrine, you make it sound like we always break the rules and never follow them, its totally blown out of proportion. And we have explained why we felt the way we did about the way each statement was said.

I don't think anything we say is going to make you happy... what do you want us to do?

It's not that I'm unhappy, because you guys do a pretty good job. it's just I don't like the idea of someone getting pulled up on something when those who do the pulling up go and commit the same thing. Just something to be aware of in the future, think this:

"If this was someone else posting this, would I be inclined to warn/ban them for it?"

That's what I mean about consistancy.

[StandingCow]

So, anyone have anything else constructive to add to this? Falcon, you waiting for an answer to your last question?

Otherwise Im going to close this soon. I have already had to delete a few posts.

[CaptCommy]

You know, a lot of us don't like being called vultures and what not. Really ties into the big problem that I'm having, which is you assume that every complaint is foundless and not worth listening too just because some people bitched about the new rules. You talk of good will, yet I've seen very little. You talk about being open to discussion, but all I've seen is a lot of "shut it, we know better".

Now I know I'm going to be yelled at to start my own thread or whatever, but that's really the point. I don't disagree with the decision made in this thread, but I do disagree with how you guys went about it. You start attacking the people with wonderful lines like "Maybe you can't deal with authority" and resistance is futile stuff. Falcon didn't start attacking you guys. He just said he disagreed with how you did things. That's the point of this forum, no? But you guys jump on everyone who makes a thread like their nothing but a senseless troll out to get you. You need to understand we're intelligent human beings, just like you, and you really have to stop talking down to us every freaking time if you want this to go anywhere.

[Prowl]

there was a time when someone could post a suggestion or complaint and we could address it civilly.

In recent history one of a small group of people posts a complaint and the rest of that small group all chime in about admin abuse.

If we get a little tired of it then I'm sorry if it shows, but we don't get any special privileges for looking after these forums. Just coming home from work (or whenever people find time to do it) and reading yet more bitching about what we do.

[CaptCommy]

I understand that, and I understand a few may have ruined it, and I have plenty of sympathy. But I think it'd go a long way to stopping a lot of this bitching you have to put up with every day if you could stomach it just a bit more/better, and be more civil. Then more people like myself and Falcon would be happy, and then you have two less bitchy posters on your hands.

[StandingCow]

I understand that, and I understand a few may have ruined it, and I have plenty of sympathy. But I think it'd go a long way to stopping a lot of this bitching you have to put up with every day if you could stomach it just a bit more/better, and be more civil. Then more people like myself and Falcon would be happy, and then you have two less bitchy posters on your hands.

The comments I made were not focused on those that aren't part of the problem, there are plenty of good posters left on this forum.

[Afro Joe]

I agree wholeheartedly with Commy but I'm afraid that's pretty useless. What does my opinion matter?

[FaKToR]

I agree wholeheartedly with Commy but I'm afraid that's pretty useless. What does my opinion matter?

Shut up bitch!

[maggie]

I understand that, and I understand a few may have ruined it, and I have plenty of sympathy. But I think it'd go a long way to stopping a lot of this bitching you have to put up with every day if you could stomach it just a bit more/better, and be more civil. Then more people like myself and Falcon would be happy, and then you have two less bitchy posters on your hands.

In my experience, being civil with these same people does no good at all, and you just get insulted for doing the best job you can. I can't even start to tell you about the names I was called, publicly and privately, while I was adminning this place. I took it all with a smile. Did it help anyone's attitude?

The answer is of course, a big fat no, which is why I'm not admin here anymore.

:cat:

[Steadman]

Maggie is a wuss :panda: PANDA PROTECTION!

[maggie]

maggie got sick of trying to help people that just shit on her for it :)

[StandingCow]

Yea, thats the kind of thing that most of us are used to, I laughed at most of the things that people did to me, such as the hate club, and posts on rob's forum, they were so pathetic they were funny.

But, it does get to you, you guys have seen me say some mean things to the general public now and then.

[marty]

Who do you think "these people" are?

[MeanPatrick]

maggie got sick of trying to help people that just shit on her for it :)

I'm sorry Maggie. :(

(Hugs maggie)

I hope you know I'll probably get -repped for that.

[CaptCommy]

In my experience, being civil with these same people does no good at all, and you just get insulted for doing the best job you can. I can't even start to tell you about the names I was called, publicly and privately, while I was adminning this place. I took it all with a smile. Did it help anyone's attitude?

The answer is of course, a big fat no, which is why I'm not admin here anymore.

:cat:

Actually, I appreciated your moderating more than most of the other admins. The problem being I guess you guys expect a happy-yay-admin-day parade or something. When things go well, I just usually keep to myself. Only when people start doing stupid shit do I get off my arse long enough to do something about it.

If you guys really believe that being civil gets you nowhere, then I really do believe we need different mods. No, it's not a fun job, and almost entirely thankless, but if that bothers you, do what Maggeh did, and step down. Or find a way to make it not get to you, because admins EVERYWHERE get shit. I always figured that was the first two rules of Mod Club.

[StandingCow]

Actually, I appreciated your moderating more than most of the other admins. The problem being I guess you guys expect a happy-yay-admin-day parade or something. When things go well, I just usually keep to myself. Only when people start doing stupid shit do I get off my arse long enough to do something about it.

If you guys really believe that being civil gets you nowhere, then I really do believe we need different mods. No, it's not a fun job, and almost entirely thankless, but if that bothers you, do what Maggeh did, and step down. Or find a way to make it not get to you, because admins EVERYWHERE get shit. I always figured that was the first two rules of Mod Club.

Nobody expects a yay admin day at all, we just get sick of non-stop bitching every now and then. :D

[Prowl]

while the idea of all the mods standing down and handing control to the OTFers may sound good to some, these forums are actually paid for by someone. The licence for vbb is owned by someone, ditto the domain name. I imagine the forums will disappear around the same time the majority of the admin/mod team decide to step down.

So really that's not an option.

[Modest Genius]

Does this mean we can do whatever we want? Of course.fixed

btw, I'm on the side of the mods here, though Commie made a good point. Just because some of us have shown a little discontent in the past does not mean we should be dismissed out of hand in the future

[StandingCow]

fixed

btw, I'm on the side of the mods here, though Commie made a good point. Just because some of us have shown a little discontent in the past does not mean we should be dismissed out of hand in the future

You already have your custom title.. what are you brown nosing for? hehe jk jk :kak:

[CaptCommy]

while the idea of all the mods standing down and handing control to the OTFers may sound good to some, these forums are actually paid for by someone. The licence for vbb is owned by someone, ditto the domain name. I imagine the forums will disappear around the same time the majority of the admin/mod team decide to step down.

So really that's not an option.

I never ever said hand control over to the OTF. 99% of the time, I'm running around supporting you guys against the regulars, because I agree with what you're doing. I'm just saying that if the job is really getting to some of you that badly, it might be time to quit/take a break and maybe get new staff in. Or something. All I know is what we have isn't really working to anyones benefit, because everyone is pissed.

[StandingCow]

I never ever said hand control over to the OTF. 99% of the time, I'm running around supporting you guys against the regulars, because I agree with what you're doing. I'm just saying that if the job is really getting to some of you that badly, it might be time to quit/take a break and maybe get new staff in. Or something. All I know is what we have isn't really working to anyones benefit, because everyone is pissed.

Some have already. Again, it gets to all of us from time to time.

[marty]

while the idea of all the mods standing down and handing control to the OTFers may sound good to some,Who ever said that?

[StandingCow]

Why is Lucky bashing frowned upon in the first place? We say much WORSE to eachother still ON the forums to eachother's faces in jest.... why is this such a sensitive subject?

It isn't that its lucky bashing per se... bashing anyone isn't allowed...

[StandingCow]

I'm confused.

Me too :)

[Prowl]

bashing Lucky for his admining is one thing, personal attacks regarding paedophilia etc is getting old and boring.

Also since he isn't here to defend himself it's considered rude.

If this dead horse is quite finished with now?