PDA

View Full Version : [C3I '68] Interest, Rules, and Tenitive Unit Review Thread


General Bordinko
April 29th, 2010, 01:26 AM
Ok so im going to be out for a week or so with the baby being born. When I get back I will be using my spare time to get '68 started and running. Take some time and tear apart the rules and ask questions. I have also attached a Tentative Unit list.

Post if your interested.

C3I '68 Rules:
Order Submission:
All orders must be in by Tuesday night at 8PM EST. Otherwise, that nation will forfeit their moves for that turn. This does not mean that

their military will not react to being attacked. It means that all offensive movements will not take place during that turn.

Coup Rule:
If at anytime you miss two consecutive turns. Meaning, if I don't have an update from you on what is going on with your nation for two turns then you forfeit your nation and it goes to a standby person or it becomes a NPC nation up for grabs.


C3 - Communicate, command, conquer and intelligence - 1968

What is C3I '68?

You, as the player, can choose your government and military type and
through military, political, economic, espionage and trade you or your allies can ultimately win.


Who's in charge?
I will be the Game Master. Everything will be run through me I will
keep track of cash, units, mission outcome. Tato and Swat may show up again in interesting ways.

What type of Government can I have?
C3I '68 has new government sub types in addition to the original
Democracy
Monarchy
Fascism
Communism

New Subtypes
Colonial Administration
Left Wing Radicals
True Believers
Freedom Fighters

Are there any bonuses to picking a certain type of government?
Yes and there are also disadvantages. You won't know until you pick the
one you want. Note government perks have changed. Note that the 68 flavors have military bonuses and the classical government types have production bonuses.

Can I know what government bonuses I get before I pick?
When you choose a government type you will get that government and the subset so if you have a choice on what you would like then from the two.
Table:
Classic 68 subtypes
Monarchy - Colonial Administration
Communism - Bloc State
Democracy - Freedom Fighters
Fascist - True Believers

Can I make an alliance with someone?
Only if your government type allows you to.

Whoa that's different, what gives?
Yes, In the 60's democracies would not ally with communists and the Israelis with the Egyptians. It shouldn't be hard to figure out if you know anything about the Cold War. The government restrictions will be kept secret until the governments are passed out.

How does cash/supplies/industrial capacity work?
The cash in this game, Dinkos, is the standard currency of the continent. It represents the total purchasing power. Each section of land in the game will have a Dinko value (just like axis and allies). Some lands will have more some will have less. Everyone will know the Dinko production power of the provinces.

How many Dinkos do I start with?
2000

What can I buy with it?
You military for one. You can trade or buy Intel just use it for your alliance.

How does Intel work?
Everyone has a national Intel service this time around. I will costs 200 Dinkos for a dice roll. If you roll 5 or a 6 then you can request intel on an enemy or a province. Don't ask for their military sheet. The dice roll can be modified with more dinkos. Every 200 extra dinkos an extra number will be added. Example if you pay 600 dinkos for intel you can get a 3, 4, 5 or 6 roll for intel. This cannot exceed 800 dinkos. A roll of one will always fail.


What type of military can I have?
Whatever you want.

When you say scratch you mean anything right?
Yes

Are there any restrictions?
Yes. This time around only specialized units can peform specialized actions EX Only Para's can Paradrop. Only Mech Infantry can load into APC's

Last game I was very confused about the military structure. What are you doing to fix this?
This time around I am designing 'shake and bake' divisions. Each of the major nations (US, Soviet Union). I will include, Armor, Infantry, Airborne, Mech infantry and Air Force

Is there a minimum and a maximum of divisions that I need?
No.

Do I start with any military units or do I have to build them all?
Yes and No You have one headquarters brigade and one Air Force brigade to start for free. You have to build and distinguish which one it is.


Is the military structure the same?

You start at the company level. 4 companies to a brigade. A brigade will be the smallest fighting force available in C3I

How will combat be resolved?
I will be using a game called Steel Panthers: Main Battle Tank to resolve the battles. The game spans JAN 1946 until DEC 1969 and has every conceivable iteration of weapon systems. I will take the units that you give me and have them fight. They can either fight over objectives, like airbases forts and cities. Or they can fight to the death to inflict the most damage until the turn ends. At the end of the fight a list of what has been destroyed and what side has been the winner.

Is there anything else special with combat?
Yes. Unit Modifiers

What are unit modifiers?

In SPMBT there is a list of six modifiers that any one side can have. They are:
Searching
Hitting
Rout/Rally
Troop Quality
Tank Toughness
Inf Toughness

All nations will start with 60% troop quality. In this game Troop Quality = XP. At the end of every battle 5% XP will be added to all surviving units. When a unit is reinforced after heavy losses (heavy losses = 50% causalities) the XP will be reduced by - 5 XP

What about the Air Force?

Dogfights will be decided by dice roll, just like warhammer.

They will roll to see the squadron. +5 roll will see's the squadron.
They will roll hit the aircraft. +4 roll will hit the aircraft.
Each aircraft have a chance to evade +4

Unless explicitly mentioned I will assume that all aircraft will be participation in the ground defense or assault.

Therefore each aircraft will carry their bomb ordinance and their air to air ordinance.

With this in mind each defending and attacking aircraft, with the exception of all bombers and para transports, will have two air to air shots. Missiles sucked hard in the 60's

However if you decide to strip the bomb ordinance off your aircraft then they may have four air to air shots but cannot participate in the ground offensive.

If I lose a battle can I rebuild my army?
Yes, a cost will be associated to how much you lost in the skirmish it could range from the price of a company or an entire battalion



How long will it take to reinforce units/build new divisions?
Each turn will be considered a week. For new units and reinforcements it will take 1 complete turn.


C3I order system.

Whoever gets me their orders for their units first will go first in combat.
Example:
I have an email from BAS at 730 and a PM from Colon at 731

I run BAS's orders first,
Colon next

Now say that colon and matt attack BAS from nation 4 to province 10, while BAS has planned to attack into colon's and matt's attacking military at nation 4 to province 10.

I have an email from BAS at 730 and a PM from Colon at 731 and a email
from matt at 800

BAS's order will countermand colon's order because it hasn't kicked off yet. Matt's forces will help defend the same province.

"Get there firstest with the mostest" is the number one rule to the order system.

In order to streamline the way that you give me information I am setting up a standardized order system. You tell me what you want your division to do by giving me one of these orders:

For the attacker:
Assault
This represents a particularly forceful sustained attack where the attackers will attempt wear down the opponent. Used to wear down enemy units

Encirclement
The attacking force will try to pin down and encircle the defenders in a small area of the province. Used to prevent defenders from withdrawing.

Breakthrough
The attacker will focus all of their efforts to overrun an enemy's defenses in part of the province. Self explanatory

Feint
The attacker will use only a light force in a attempt to draw enemy forces away from the actual target. Used for recon in force.

Not one step back!
The attacker concentrate his entire army into taking this province.
There will be no stopping and no retreat. Death or glory.

For the defender:

Counterattack
This is a concerted attempt by the defending side to launch a minor counter-offensive to disrupt the enemy's plans. You can place a division into counter attack status so that they will react at an attack within move distance. Cannot move and then be issued this order. Unit must be stationary for this turn.

Delay
The defending side is employing a delaying action so that it may hold until reinforcements arrive. Self explanatory

Tactical Withdrawal
The defender is making a careful tactical withdrawal out of this province so that they may fight at a later time. Once attacked you will withdraw to another province trading land for time.

Hold the line
The defending side will resist until the end. None will survive.


Other Orders:

Bombardment (Attacker) Danger Close (Defender)
Any arty piece may move one and attack into an adjacent province. Arty may not move again until next turn. This works for the attacker and the defender.

CAS
All airplanes will be loaded with multirole ordnance only.

CAP
All aircraft will be loaded with air to air ordnance only

Consolidate
During the course of combat many units will be lost. Using this order you have the ability to reform your forces from all you provinces. The selected units will be taken out of combat for 1 turn to be reformed where the new parent's division is located. If the forces that you wish to consolidate are in the same province then you do not need to wait one turn to be combat effective again. This order will work at the company level. However you cannot exceed your nations limits on companies/brigades.

Example 1:
I have an email from BAS at 730 'Defend 4-10. 1st Division "Hold the Line"' and a PM from Colon at 731 'Attack BAS 4-10' with the 9th Infantry Division "Feint"'

Both orders are successful. BAS's forces will attempt to hold the line and Colon's force will attack and then break off after a few turns of attack.

Example 2:
I have an email from BAS at 730 'Defend 4-10. 1st Division "Tactical Withdraw"' and a PM from Colon at 731 'Attack BAS 4-10' with the 9th Infantry Division "Encirclement"'

Both orders are successful. BAS's forces will attempt to withdraw but will not be able to because Colon's force will encircle his forces. Combat will continue for a standard number of turns.

Consolidate Example:
In the last attack into 3-20 BAS has lost 50% of division A. In a previous battle into 3-7 BAS lost 75% of division B and 75% of division C. BAS will issue a consolidate order so that 25% of his choosing from division A will be attached to divisions B and C. Division A will be no more and divisions B and C will be taken out of combat for 1 turn as they consolidate their forces. However if A, B, and C are in the same province then they do not need to spend a turn consolidating.

Updated movement:
Foot Mobiles: 1 move per turn
Mech, Motorized, Wheels, and Tracks: 2 moves per turn
Helicopters/Air Cav: 6 moves per turn
Fixed Wing/Paradropping para's: 12 moves per turn
Heavy Bombers: 24 moves per turn

DasHuhn
April 29th, 2010, 02:06 AM
I am again interested in this :3

MatthewMarchand
April 29th, 2010, 02:41 AM
I will play.

Captain Colon
April 29th, 2010, 02:45 AM
you should make it so there's a reason to use any attack type besides encirclement

Fallschirmjager
April 29th, 2010, 02:46 AM
100% down.

GrosPoisson
April 29th, 2010, 02:57 AM
I'm playing. Hold on to your butts, butt-holders.

MatthewMarchand
April 29th, 2010, 03:51 AM
Oh, we should know where our country is on the map, before we have to submit an army. Some had that opportunity last time, others did not.

solidsnake
April 29th, 2010, 06:10 AM
im down

Metalslug
April 29th, 2010, 06:23 AM
Rodrigo b Slug shall take no prisoners VIVA VAL VERDE!

Count me the fuck in.

General Bordinko
April 29th, 2010, 09:49 AM
you should make it so there's a reason to use any attack type besides encirclement

There is. I've added new land provinces but i've left it out of the rules ATM.

BAS
April 29th, 2010, 02:48 PM
I'm only playing if the combat isnt all fucking random still

Noirceur
April 29th, 2010, 02:55 PM
I'll play this time. People told me I should get in for '68.

Splitlip
April 29th, 2010, 10:40 PM
Maybe....

GrosPoisson
April 29th, 2010, 10:40 PM
I'm only playing if the combat isnt all fucking random still

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/GrosPoisson/k33_22916175.jpg

Personally, I am going to sink unhealthy amounts of time into running SPMBT simulations until I find the best combinations of troll units possible, then unleash them upon the gameworld. If you aren't willing to put in the time and hate that people that do get an advantage, yeah, you might want to sit this one out.

General Bordinko
April 29th, 2010, 10:50 PM
Oh, we should know where our country is on the map, before we have to submit an army. Some had that opportunity last time, others did not.


Done.

BAS the units and gov types have been further balanced. There shouldn't be a huge gap like the last game.

Gros, the max year set should be OCt 1969. I wanted to include F-111a's

BAS
April 29th, 2010, 10:54 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/GrosPoisson/k33_22916175.jpg

Personally, I am going to sink unhealthy amounts of time into running SPMBT simulations until I find the best combinations of troll units possible, then unleash them upon the gameworld. If you aren't willing to put in the time and hate that people that do get an advantage, yeah, you might want to sit this one out.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

im talking about the fact that SPMBT's combat was completely random in who shoots at what and who kills what, and you never even saw combat last game so gg

Fallschirmjager
April 29th, 2010, 10:58 PM
do you see combat as a real president wtf. this is a sim bas so figure it out

GrosPoisson
April 30th, 2010, 01:03 AM
im talking about the fact that SPMBT's combat was completely random in who shoots at what and who kills what

Still the same, limitation of the game engine.

you never even saw combat last game so gg

Considering how your armies got, I don't know... laid the fuck out, you probably don't want to be bringing that up as proof of knowing what's going on. An accurate impression of Soviet-era military forces with a cute Ace Combat 5 theme for your government is fun, but when it ends up not working, that's not the game's fault.

I didn't need to get my armies massacred to know what would and wouldn't work. I already knew beyond any doubt that combat was "random" because I messed around with SPMBT and watched my AT guns shoot at infantry that was 800 meters away instead of tanks that were 100 meters away. I already knew who would win and lose in advance because I was spying on your armies and feeding information to people you were fighting. Those Canadians who showed up at the airfield rocking Javelins and melting Slav armor left and right? Direct result of information I gave to the relevant parties and a massive airlift operation that they executed in response. They were the most cost-effective units that could get there in time and do the most damage before being overrun.

General Bordinko
April 30th, 2010, 03:13 AM
With unit modifers added it should be even craizer. All troops start with 60% xp (troop quality) so... Everyone will be having the same problems until their troops get salty.

pgood
April 30th, 2010, 03:30 AM
Count me in.

Prepare for your women to be killed, your sheep to be raped, and your men to be eaten.

o_O

Fallschirmjager
April 30th, 2010, 03:50 AM
I for one, vouch for pgood.

Fallschirmjager
April 30th, 2010, 03:50 AM
he also saw my dong

MatthewMarchand
April 30th, 2010, 04:23 AM
he also saw my dong

So that just leaves The Pope as the only person who hasn't seen it?

MatthewMarchand
April 30th, 2010, 06:41 AM
4 Companies per brigade, 4 brigades per division?

edit:

What about, 4 companies per battalion, the battalion is the smallest unit, and 4 battalions make up a brigade. The brigade is the old division. But still smaller and easier for you to manage.

Noirceur
April 30th, 2010, 12:55 PM
So that just leaves The Pope as the only person who hasn't seen it?
I'm sure he's seen it, just doesn't want to talk about it.

General Bordinko
May 1st, 2010, 03:30 PM
4 Companies per brigade, 4 brigades per division?

edit:

What about, 4 companies per battalion, the battalion is the smallest unit, and 4 battalions make up a brigade. The brigade is the old division. But still smaller and easier for you to manage.

I like this.

Also I was thinking of adding bonuses to diffrent Attack/defense types. Example: breakthrough will add +5 to searching and delay will add +5 to hitting. What do you guys think?

GrosPoisson
May 1st, 2010, 11:02 PM
Sounds good.

Splitlip
May 1st, 2010, 11:17 PM
I need to get something on my home PC that can open .xls . I somehow have managed to never acquire a copy of excel.

DasHuhn
May 1st, 2010, 11:49 PM
openoffice.org

Splitlip
May 1st, 2010, 11:58 PM
yeah, probably.

Fallschirmjager
May 2nd, 2010, 04:23 AM
open office works perfectly just get it

General Bordinko
May 2nd, 2010, 08:12 PM
Updated Orders:
Let me know what you think.



For the attacker:
Assault
This represents a particularly forceful sustained attack where the attackers will attempt wear down the opponent. Used to wear down enemy units - Hitting +10%

Encirclement
The attacking force will try to pin down and encircle the defenders in a small area of the province. Used to prevent defenders from withdrawing.

Breakthrough
The attacker will focus all of their efforts to overrun an enemy's defenses in part of the province. Self explanatory - rout/rally +10%

Feint
The attacker will use only a light force in a attempt to draw enemy forces away from the actual target. Used for recon in force. - Searching +10%

Not one step back!
The attacker concentrate his entire army into taking this province.
There will be no stopping and no retreat. Death or glory.

For the defender:

Counterattack
This is a concerted attempt by the defending side to launch a minor counter-offensive to disrupt the enemy's plans. You can place a division into counter attack status so that they will react at an attack within move distance. Cannot move and then be issued this order. Unit must be stationary for this turn.

Delay
The defending side is employing a delaying action so that it may hold until reinforcements arrive. Self explanatory. Rout/Rally +10%

Tactical Withdrawal
The defender is making a careful tactical withdrawal out of this province so that they may fight at a later time. Once attacked you will withdraw to another province trading land for time. Hitting +10

Hold the line
The defending side will resist until the end. None will survive.


Other Orders:

Bombardment (Attacker) Danger Close (Defender)
Any arty piece may move one and attack into an adjacent province. Arty may not move again until next turn. This works for the attacker and the defender.

CAS
All airplanes will be loaded with multirole ordnance only.

CAP
All aircraft will be loaded with air to air ordnance only

Consolidate
During the course of combat many units will be lost. Using this order you have the ability to reform your forces from all you provinces. The selected units will be taken out of combat for 1 turn to be reformed where the new parent's division is located. If the forces that you wish to consolidate are in the same province then you do not need to wait one turn to be combat effective again. This order will work at the company level. However you cannot exceed your nations limits on companies/brigades.

Example 1:
I have an email from BAS at 730 'Defend 4-10. 1st Division "Hold the Line"' and a PM from Colon at 731 'Attack BAS 4-10' with the 9th Infantry Division "Feint"'

Both orders are successful. BAS's forces will attempt to hold the line and Colon's force will attack and then break off after a few turns of attack.

Example 2:
I have an email from BAS at 730 'Defend 4-10. 1st Division "Tactical Withdraw"' and a PM from Colon at 731 'Attack BAS 4-10' with the 9th Infantry Division "Encirclement"'

Both orders are successful. BAS's forces will attempt to withdraw but will not be able to because Colon's force will encircle his forces. Combat will continue for a standard number of turns.

Consolidate Example:
In the last attack into 3-20 BAS has lost 50% of division A. In a previous battle into 3-7 BAS lost 75% of division B and 75% of division C. BAS will issue a consolidate order so that 25% of his choosing from division A will be attached to divisions B and C. Division A will be no more and divisions B and C will be taken out of combat for 1 turn as they consolidate their forces. However if A, B, and C are in the same province then they do not need to spend a turn consolidating.

Updated movement:
Foot Mobiles: 1 move per turn
Mech, Motorized, Wheels, and Tracks: 2 moves per turn
Helicopters/Air Cav: 6 moves per turn
Fixed Wing/Paradropping para's: 12 moves per turn
Heavy Bombers: 24 moves per turn

GrosPoisson
May 3rd, 2010, 12:35 AM
I like the bonuses to each order type, seems like it would provide interesting tactical possibilities.

Captain Colon
May 3rd, 2010, 12:39 AM
unless i'm missing something, there's still no reason not to use encirclement unless 10% hit rate means the difference between victory and defeat...i can either lose a few more dudes and completely annihilate entire divisions and use their battered corpses for parts, or let them retreat and reinforce?

General Bordinko
May 3rd, 2010, 02:03 AM
unless i'm missing something, there's still no reason not to use encirclement unless 10% hit rate means the difference between victory and defeat...i can either lose a few more dudes and completely annihilate entire divisions and use their battered corpses for parts, or let them retreat and reinforce?

How should we fix it to balance it out? No XP Gain? or seeing that they are blitzing ahead that they would be out of supply/exausted so -10 to all traits except xp?

Captain Colon
May 3rd, 2010, 02:10 AM
well for one thing i don't think infantry on foot should be able to encircle entire armored divisions and decimate them...units with less mobility should be at a disadvantage or not be able to do it at all against faster ones. It would also give people a reason to buy some of the faster lightly armored units that are pretty much total shit unless their mobility actually gives them a big advantage.

The other idea I liked was that it would give the attacker big combat advantages but you actually had to have the defenders surrounded on 2 or 3 sides to do it, making it more of a strategic move requiring careful planning (and likely some false intelligence if you don't have an ally to pinch them in and are trying to do it all yourself) than a hurrdurr i krush yuo all time like i was doing with it last game. It would make advancing a lot more interesting too I think...do I keep all my army together from province to province, or do I fork out and have part of it on each side of my planned advance route so I can double-stuff anything that's in the right spot but have both sides more vulnerable individually?

MatthewMarchand
May 3rd, 2010, 03:45 AM
So limit encirclement to mechanized, para, and airmobile units? Higher chance of success if enemy is not mechanized?

MatthewMarchand
May 3rd, 2010, 05:12 AM
I am starting to think the prices are a bit high though, the more I look at the list, the more I realize I will be broke with a damn small army.

For example, a Chinook is 98 dinkos, US Army infantry company 23 dinkos, or 242 for one airmobile battalion.

One brigade being 968 dinkos. Damn near 50% of your budget for one unit.

If you kept the price the same, but gave 10000-15000, aircraft and tank prices are hugely more expensive then they once were. A T55 goes for 96 dinkos, and a MiG-21 for 73, starts to get really costly.

Fallschirmjager
May 3rd, 2010, 07:34 PM
I'm with matt on prices. Neckbearding it out with the unit list, if we're going with the old template for battalion/brigade/division or whatever, having two full divisions will definitely make it easier for you, but also totally limit the game as nobody will be able to do what they're looking to do with units. If I wanted some leet paras, I can't afford more than one brigade.

General Bordinko
May 3rd, 2010, 08:04 PM
Would the prices be better when they are offset by the discounts?

5% for picking one nation's military
10% for government advantage

MatthewMarchand
May 3rd, 2010, 11:46 PM
Would the prices be better when they are offset by the discounts?

5% for picking one nation's military
10% for government advantage

I suppose, if you want us all driving around in T34s and Shermans ;)

If you gave 10000 dinkos, which is the 4 times what we got in the last game

The B52 is 7.3 times more expensive then it once was. So we still get less, which is easier on you, but we still get enough that

The T64R is 178 dinkos, whereas a the Merkava Mk4b cost 66, the T64R 2.7 times more expensive.

I have no problem with having a smaller military, because it is easier for you, but as of right now we are going to have some very small and crappy battles with lame equipment.

Fallschirmjager
May 4th, 2010, 12:08 AM
15% of 968 isnt enough to make a HUGE difference. Even if we had 4000 dinkos to start, it would be small enough for you to manage, but enough for us to sperg out over units.

General Bordinko
May 4th, 2010, 12:14 AM
Ok lets halve the prices. Where would that put us with the discounts included?

General Bordinko
May 4th, 2010, 12:38 AM
To do:
Win Conditions
Template for Military
Revise Map

FlamingPotato
May 14th, 2010, 08:37 PM
What infantry can load into helicopters? Mech Inf? Para Inf, or all, because I could find no heli inf.

General Bordinko
May 14th, 2010, 09:44 PM
Para Infantry.

Fallschirmjager
May 15th, 2010, 12:35 AM
Is movement on the map going to be 4 or 8 directional? I vote 4 directional.

General Bordinko
May 15th, 2010, 12:57 AM
Is movement on the map going to be 4 or 8 directional? I vote 4 directional.

8 directional. A unit can move to any square from any square touching it.

FlamingPotato
May 15th, 2010, 01:03 AM
Does the one nation bonus work if you have a mixture of USA and USMC?

General Bordinko
May 15th, 2010, 01:13 AM
Does the one nation bonus work if you have a mixture of USA and USMC?
Seeing that the bulk of the airstrikes come from the USA tree anyway... In this case yes.

Reminder. If you chose units from one nation you will receive an additional 5% off the unit costs