Military Questions

[Venom]

Are the Marines truely what they are thought to be?
I have heard not so great things about the Marines.
I know the training is the hardest. They treat you as non-human/shit durring bootcamp and training. Almost all recruiters are full of shit, and sugar-coat many things because they want you to enlist under them so they make money.


If i was to set up a contract with any military, so that they would pay for my schooling. What is the minimum amount of years I must give them in return?
I was told it was 4 years, but I would automaticly be a 2nd Lieutenant.


To become a Pilot for the Airforce, or the Marines must I go to school for 2 years? Are all pilots considered officers in the Military?


Answers to these questions would be a great help.

I'm starting to think heavily into it. I have brought the issue of the military to my parents and they dont feal very comfortable with the current condition that the US is in right now. They are "worriers". My grandpa said he would talk to me about it in more detail when I see him, but he told me that he got his ass kicked in training for the Army, and imagining the Marines training and bootcamp is incredible.

My goal has always been law enforcement. Where I live, an average cop gets paid 100k+ a year. The crime is also very low where I live. It's a job that I would love waking up to in the morning. Plus great benifits (medical, pention). But to take the test I must be 19, and I can join when I am 21. The test can only be taken every 4 years. There are thousands wanting this job. I know I can ace the test, but maybe that might not be enouph, with others haveing Vets credits, and credits for being a minority. Thats why I was thinking the Military. Vets credits, plus I can take the test while I'm in the Military. I will most likely have to wait a couple years anyway, so in the mean time I can get my time done. My parents seem to want me to take the college route. I'm currently 16 right now, but with SAT's and ACT tests coming soon, i need to start knowing what I want to do.

Once again, It's appreciated for your help with some of my questions or advice. :)






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[Toastar]

try the military forum ;)

Also, from what I know the army uses warrant officers for helocopter pilots

[ScAvenger001]

Moved to mil

[gYmBaG]

I'm starting to think heavily into it. I have brought the issue of the military to my parents and they dont feal very comfortable with the current condition that the US is in right now. They are "worriers". My grandpa said he would talk to me about it in more detail when I see him, but he told me that he got his ass kicked in training for the Army, and imagining the Marines training and bootcamp is incredible.

thats a good point, i my self joined the DEPs program for the marines awhile back, but have thought heavily about things. my recruiter gave me nothing but bs, and i confronted him and he still denied it. whatever you do, talk to someone in the military who isnt a recruiter. but because of the current conditions in iraq, and the conditions i have with my gf right now, i have decided not to leave for bootcamp in january, but to take 2 years of college , and get my AA degree, then i could either go in as an E-3, or i could, if the war is still bad, go to college 2 more years, and just become an officer. thats what im doing. as for the basic being hard. your grandfather most likely went to basic when? back then things were different, i dunno what time he did it, but they did it differently, i know in the 60's and 70's when they were doing the draft, many D.I.s would beat their recruits, not because they are hardcore di's but because many of them were drafted and didnt want to be there. rebals i guess you can say. so physical pain was one of the few things that actually got them in shape. its great that you're considering the military, and college, thats a great idea. and just think of it this way, say you retire and go into law inforcement. what police department is going to turn down someone with 4 years of college and spent time in the united states military? probably .5% of them out there. i wish you the best of luck and if anyone else can help you out where i didnt, thanks

[GoatChomper]

If i was to set up a contract with any military, so that they would pay for my schooling. What is the minimum amount of years I must give them in return?
Depends on the stipulations of your contract.
I was told it was 4 years, but I would automaticly be a 2nd Lieutenant.
Maybe yes, maybe no. When the big reduction in force came down in 1973 there were quite a few cadets who completed ROTC courses that year who were simply let go without a commission, as there were just no longer enough slots available in both the active and reserve components to employ them all.
To become a Pilot for the Airforce, or the Marines must I go to school for 2 years?
Longer, actually.....all pilots in the Air Force and USMC are commissioned ones and therefore require at least a Bachelor's degree, as those services (unlike the Army) lack a flight warrants' program.
Are all pilots considered officers in the Military?
Yes.....all of them in the USAF, USMC, and USN are commissioned officers while there are quite a few warrant officers in Army aviation.

[Venom]

thats a good point, i my self joined the DEPs program for the marines
what is the DEPs program?

your grandfather most likely went to basic when?
the korean war


i have decided not to leave for bootcamp in january, but to take 2 years of college , and get my AA degree, then i could either go in as an E-3, or i could, if the war is still bad, go to college 2 more years, and just become an officer.
thats a very smart idea. What is a AA degree? Whats an E-3?
As an example, how was your contract set up? They are paying full for your schooling, and you are going to give them how many years? As of right now they are paying for 2 years of schooling, but like you said, depending on the situation you may continue schooling for another additontional 2 years. Is it all set up in the contract, so that you can do this?

what police department is going to turn down someone with 4 years of college and spent time in the united states military? probably .5% of them out there.
and i think mine is one of them. :cool: but if i do good on the test, i should not have to worry.


i wish you the best of luck and if anyone else can help you out where i didnt, thanks
Thanks for all you help man, and good luck to you also. Be safe pal ;)


Depends on the stipulations of your contract.

Maybe yes, maybe no. When the big reduction in force came down in 1973 there were quite a few cadets who completed ROTC courses that year who were simply let go without a commission, as there were just no longer enough slots available in both the active and reserve components to employ them all.

Longer, actually.....all pilots in the Air Force and USMC are commissioned ones and therefore require at least a Bachelor's degree, as those services (unlike the Army) lack a flight warrants' program.

Yes.....all of them in the USAF, USMC, and USN are commissioned officers while there are quite a few warrant officers in Army aviation.
What is a warrant officer? And to become a Pilot in the army, what is the average amount of schooling needed?
Thanks for you help.

[gYmBaG]

what is the DEPs program?

DEPs is the Delayed Entry Program, i dunno if the other branches have them, the marines do, its for people in high school that want to join, they DEP in, basicly go to MEPs, all that fun stuff, and they take the physical, and they just prepair for bootcamp. its pretty fun, but now that im done with high school, i decided to skip going to basic and go to college instead

What is a AA degree? Whats an E-3?
As an example, how was your contract set up? They are paying full for your schooling, and you are going to give them how many years? As of right now they are paying for 2 years of schooling, but like you said, depending on the situation you may continue schooling for another additontional 2 years. Is it all set up in the contract, so that you can do this?
Assosiote degree, my spelling is horrible. as for the E-3 thats a paygrade, used by all military branches, E-1 is the lowest enlisted paygrade as the same O-1 is the lowest officer paygrade. as for my contract? im not in one currently, i was when i was in DEPs, but once i decided not to go to basic, i just waited for it to expire, cause they cant do anything really untill i go to MEPs for the second time. and im paying for college out of my own pockets, sure its going to be alot harder, but i dont want to get tied anyway with the military right now, not that i dont love the military, cause i do. its just i dont want to be pulled into anything im not 100% sure about at the moment and end up in iraq when i was tryin to go to college instead

[GoatChomper]

What is a warrant officer?
A warrant officer is a person commissioned by the President who, unlike a regular officer commissioned by Congress, has a command authority limited solely to the unit to which he is assigned for purposes of convenience while a regular officer may exercise command anywhere. The main difference is that a regular commission requires that the holder possess at least a Bachelor's degree (battlefield commissions excepted), while no educational requirement exists for a warrant.
And to become a Pilot in the army, what is the average amount of schooling needed?
None beyond the minimums at the time for an enlisted man, although for warrants the same principle that not all pigs are equally tall at the trough applies as it does for prospective enlistees.....diplomates first, GEDs next, others last.

[Venom]

Okay, this is what I will most likely do...

I'm going to signup through some time of ROTC.
I'm not sure which force of the Military I would like to join as of yet.
Navy/Airforce have the best living condition/less risk.
The army really isn't in my picture.
I'm looking into the Marines. I know training would be crazy. If i was to go in as a regular recruit I would get my ass kicked. But if I'm going to be entering as a 2nd Lieutenant, I would be respected. Im the type of guy that would treat Privates and lower classes as if they were equal as me. I believe this is very important, because the last thing they want is someone who just got there, telling them what to do.
What do you think this?

[GrosPoisson]

Careful about the idea of ROTC paying for everything, there's a lot of ifs and buts in that equation. Certain services differ in the amount of compensation offered for college, and even then it's not a full ride. Yeah, you get money for tuition and stipends for books and housing, but you're still going to have to shell out some of your own money.

[knute]

Careful about the idea of ROTC paying for everything, there's a lot of ifs and buts in that equation. Certain services differ in the amount of compensation offered for college, and even then it's not a full ride. Yeah, you get money for tuition and stipends for books and housing, but you're still going to have to shell out some of your own money.

And if I'm not mistaken, they have somewhat stringent academic requirements to keep your scholarships. (or at least more stringent than my friend in the AFROTC could handle)

[gYmBaG]

Okay, this is what I will most likely do...

I'm going to signup through some time of ROTC.
I'm not sure which force of the Military I would like to join as of yet.
Navy/Airforce have the best living condition/less risk.
The army really isn't in my picture.
I'm looking into the Marines. I know training would be crazy. If i was to go in as a regular recruit I would get my ass kicked. But if I'm going to be entering as a 2nd Lieutenant, I would be respected. Im the type of guy that would treat Privates and lower classes as if they were equal as me. I believe this is very important, because the last thing they want is someone who just got there, telling them what to do.
What do you think this?
basic is basic, it doesnt matter if you're going enlisted or officer, you're still a recruit and will still get treated like shit

[GoatChomper]

But if I'm going to be entering as a 2nd Lieutenant, I would be respected.
BWAHAHAHAHAH !!!111

Reality time from a former 2LT here: a goldbar is the least-respected pig at the trough, period.....he usually hasn't the experience of even the junior-most E1 in his unit, and yet he's still saddled with the responsibilities and consequences of his decisions while his juniors carp about him and his seniors wonder if they'll ever be able to take off his training wheels.

Hear this and write it onto the back of your hand and read it often. If you know this beforehand, you will survive career-wise. If you try from Day One to run a platoon all by your lonesome as a brand-new 2LT sure and secure in the knowledge that you are The Man, you will get manhandled.

If he has a good E7 and enough brains to let the E7 actually run the unit after he tells him what he thinks he wants the unit to do (and the 2LT knows he's in charge because more often than not it gets done, albeit maybe not in the way he'd envisaged), he'll survive. If he winds up with a shitbag E7, he's in for a bad time.

Two pieces of fiction from authors who know about this, available from your local bookstore:

God's Children by Harold Coyle. It features a 2LT who winds up in charge of a mech platoon and on his very first day, the shooting starts and they get cut off. I kept wondering when the 2LT would wake up, realize he was in over his head, and would shut up and start listening to the 1LT attached to his platoon.

Armored Corps by Pete Callahan, in which a tank platoon leader in Korea gets saddled with an issues-crippled and insubordinate TC in one of his tracks.....just in time for the NKPA to come hauling ass over the 38th parallel.

[[hk]renegade]

Marine OCS sucks, then you have TBS after it and god forbid you get stuck with being a grunt LT. Then you get to do IOC and run range 410 Alpha before you even get to the fleet and do a fucking CAX... Plus pretty much all of officer schooling including pilots you do alot of field time. And I dont know a single LT esspcially a 2ndLT respected by the people hes in charge of, so my advice is stay away from officer schooling...

[Toastar]

what about going reg forces and then going into OCS?

you've then got experience from the ground level

[[hk]renegade]

then the instructers just hate you more, cause your an enlisted (which is what they are) going to an officer (which they dont like) and piror service doest mean your not a fuckin shit bag.

[Venom]

i'm a type of guy that would respect those who are lower in rank then me as if they were equal. I'm not going in to be in charge. I want to get schooling, and if becoming a 2L comes with it, why not?

What is OCS?

renegade']Marine OCS sucks, then you have TBS after it and god forbid you get stuck with being a grunt LT. Then you get to do IOC and run range 410 Alpha before you even get to the fleet and do a fucking CAX... Plus pretty much all of officer schooling including pilots you do alot of field time. And I dont know a single LT esspcially a 2ndLT respected by the people hes in charge of, so my advice is stay away from officer schooling...

what do you mean TBS?
IOC?
run range 410 Alpha?
CAX?

Is officer schooling a option when in ROTC?

[gYmBaG]

OCS stands for officer canadite school. basicly if you do ocs, you have about 3 or 4 other schools for officers that you will have to do either after you finish college, or during summer breaks of your schooling

[[hk]renegade]

410 Alapha is a secret that only those that have done it can know about, CAX is Combat Assement Exercises IOC is Infantry Officers Course TBS is The Basic School, kinda like the MCT or SOI of Officers

[GoatChomper]

i'm a type of guy that would respect those who are lower in rank then me as if they were equal.
Then a commission is not for you.....your subordinates are not your equals, they're your subordinates. Treating them as equals will quickly earn you something that's nothing more than a mob all wearing the same clothes, with your and your NCOs' effectiveness reduced to zero.
I'm not going in to be in charge. I want to get schooling, and if becoming a 2L comes with it, why not?
Because the 2LT's job is exactly that....being in charge. If you take the commissioning oath with this in mind, you are violating the letter of it.

[SWATJester_os]

Okay, this is what I will most likely do...

I'm going to signup through some time of ROTC.
I'm not sure which force of the Military I would like to join as of yet.
Navy/Airforce have the best living condition/less risk.
The army really isn't in my picture.
I'm looking into the Marines. I know training would be crazy. If i was to go in as a regular recruit I would get my ass kicked. But if I'm going to be entering as a 2nd Lieutenant, I would be respected. Im the type of guy that would treat Privates and lower classes as if they were equal as me. I believe this is very important, because the last thing they want is someone who just got there, telling them what to do.
What do you think this?

Wrong wrong wrong. As an officer, enlisted men are NOT YOUR EQUALS. You are above them for a reason. You're comissioned and trained to lead them. There's a reason you're paid more. If you treat them as a straight up equal you will be walked over, shit upon, and trampled.

a Lieutenant may be on friendly terms with his squad leaders. He'll have to have a good working relationship with his platoon sergeant. I was pretty close with my PL as an RTO, because I had to be.....you don't have much other choice when he's staff duty officer, and you're the RTO on watch. But that doesn't mean I ever let him be my equal....

[SWATJester_os]

BWAHAHAHAHAH !!!111

Two pieces of fiction from authors who know about this, available from your local bookstore:

God's Children by Harold Coyle. It features a 2LT who winds up in charge of a mech platoon and on his very first day, the shooting starts and they get cut off. I kept wondering when the 2LT would wake up, realize he was in over his head, and would shut up and start listening to the 1LT attached to his platoon.

Armored Corps by Pete Callahan, in which a tank platoon leader in Korea gets saddled with an issues-crippled and insubordinate TC in one of his tracks.....just in time for the NKPA to come hauling ass over the 38th parallel. Never read the second, but God's Children was great.

[Chris R]

Never read the second, but God's Children was great.
Yeah, it was. Harold Coyle has some really good books, like Team Yankee, Bright Star, among others. Still have to read Sword Point.

[BattleWhack]

Well, now, there's a lot of information floating around here right now.

My two cents: Wait. Just WAIT. Wait until your at least 18, wait until you have a lot more knowledge of the military, wait until you've finished school, wait until... just wait.

I know the military seems like a glamorous life, charging lines and taking hills, Oorah'ing all the while. Well it's not. I'm in a fucking maintenance squadron, supporting the flying squadrons giving close air support to my Marines on the ground. I turn wrenches, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, for the most part. And that is STATESIDE.

I come home nasty, smelly, tired, and just fucking destroyed. The military, or at least the Marine Corps, is a hard, hard, HARD life, and it's just not for everyone.

Don't rush into something that you don't understand, because you won't be getting out easily.

And as far as officers... your whole perspective is skewed on that one.

[gYmBaG]

My two cents: Wait. Just WAIT. Wait until your at least 18, wait until you have a lot more knowledge of the military, wait until you've finished school, wait until... just wait.

yeah thats what im doing, i was originally schedualed to leave january for basic, but now i cancled that, and im going to college, for 2, or 4 years, which ever time it takes to be more mature and more ready, i mean i turn 19 in a couple of days and i realize i wont probably go in till im 21 to 24 but im willing to wait that long so im more ready then i am today. im just not even 100% sure if i want to still do it, those years in college will also help me find that out. just live some life before you go in, find your self before the military does, cause i promise you, if the military does, it wont be the one you wished for.

[BattleWhack]

I have to counter myself my saying that going straight into the military was one of the better choices I've made it my life. I didn't have the self discipline back in the day to be good in college, now, when I do go back to school, I'll be 22, 23, something like that, and in shape, and motivated. Better than what I used to be, anyway.

[gYmBaG]

well yeah, for some people its a good thing. but id much rather find my self, then have the military find who i am, im not saying the military is bad, i think its great. but when you're basicly ready for college and willing to go throw with it, why not go? i dont know how you are, and you say you want to become an officer, but sometimes you have to get discipline in order to go to college. once again im not dissing anyone or anything right now, just saying my point of view, and i dont really know you venom

[Mystrick]

As a 2nd LT you'd be no different as an Ensign in the Navy. Don't make it seem like some glourious rank, it's just the first attainable one.

And SWAT is right, there's a reason you're an officer, to lead the enlisted, not try and see eye to eye to them. Sure, they may call you a dickbag or a douche, but face it, they don't like you because you're an arrogant officer and you shouldn't try and change it, it will just make you seem more pussy. The best thing you can do is don't act cocky and play it cool.

-e-

Oh yeah, and USMC training has changed since WWII. They Instructers don't literally kick your ass, they try and get your trust while still training you right.

Note: I didn't say they stopped they're aggressive training, I said they calmed it down.

[Karaya1]

I have to counter myself my saying that going straight into the military was one of the better choices I've made it my life. I didn't have the self discipline back in the day to be good in college, now, when I do go back to school, I'll be 22, 23, something like that, and in shape, and motivated. Better than what I used to be, anyway.

Thats my take on it too. Thats another reason why i enlisted my senior year.

Gymbag, If you think college is going to mature you up faster than say, the Marine Corps, well i tip my hat to you man. Good luck. College is nothing but an extension of H.S with more arrogance and still plenty of stupid Drama. I've been taking college classes and hanging out with my college buddies since i was a fucking sophmore in H.S. I already have 15 credit hours just from the courses i took at the University of Wyoming during H.S. and 3 more at a JC It aint different, just gives you more freedom if your parents were hounding in you in H.S. Mine never did so i was always free to fuck up as i so wished as a normal college kid can. The parties in college, while more frequent, generally cause just as much grief and problems as the ones in H.S did. I was sick of college parties before i graduated H.S. They were practically the only ones i went to. I would say 95% of people going to college out of H.S are wasting a LOT of money. They don't take there studies seriously, don'T have much direction and do an incredible amount of stupid shit. I can't stress this enough, PEOPLE ARE JUST AS FUCKING STUPID IN COLLEGE AS THEY ARE IN H.S, SOMETIMES MORESO.
Again, i passed up a soccer scholorship at a good program at a junior college . I also passed up an academic scholarship at the University of Wyoming for scoring a 32 on the ACT. I had every reason to go college. I chose military because i KNOW what college life was like and how i was not prepared to self motivate myself to the ability i wanted to be able to. When i am in college i want to be completely focused and dedicated to it. I want to know what field i am going into and be 100% ready. I also joined because i am patriotic as fuck. Yea, i might be in germany right now drinking a nice German beer and fucking nice German women, but I am a gun toting, budweiser drinking American at heart.

I think going from college life to Marine life would be much harder than going from H.S life to Marine life. After a couple semesters in college of having no authority figure in your life the transition is naturally going to be more of a shock. At least out of H.S you have principals and parents yelling at you from time to time (i hope).

One last thing to all you people interested in Joining. Don't DEP up unless you are serious. I don't care if you can legally back out or not, there is really no excuse. You signed a fucking contract, follow through. The recruiter isnt going to kidnap you and take you to meps. If you make the decision to go to Meps and swear in and contract, be convinced this is what your going to do, PERIOD.
Hell, i couldnt break my contract based simply on my word. I signed it, i am doing it, PERIOD. It's called self respect and dignity, if it doesn'T bother you that you signed a legal document saying you were going to serve your country for four years and then backed out, wow, just wow.
Guess that is just how i was raised though.

Venom, my advice to you would be simple. DOn'T do anything yet. Concentrate on getting good marks in H.S and staying in good physical condition. Read a lot. Learn tons. Study about the military and all that comes with it. Recruiters are not generally scumbags. I've been involved with my Marine recruiters since i was 16. All of the recruiters at the main office have been excellent people and i never was overly pressured. You must understand recruiting is a damn tough job. Kids lead them on for fun, kids play tricks on them, parents are a big obsticle right now, they have to work rediculous hours and deal with lots of crap. If you are serious and educated, they will be good to you. They get nothing out of fucking you over, really. It's impossible to get fucked over if you know WTF is going on aswell. I worked with my recruiters when they visited my school so they could avoid the kids who were just leading them on. I also recieved calls from them when new kids from my school contacted them. The recruiter would ask me if this kid was 1. Squared away in terms of being smart and 'clean' and 2. if he was serious. They gave a damn about who they were putting into the Corps.
That said, if you go into a ROTC program, be fucking serious about it again. Don't take a spot from someone who really would have loved to have it.
You will learn a lot in the enxt couple years. Asking questions, no matter how stupid, will help you make a good choice.

[Venom]

Venom, my advice to you would be simple. DOn'T do anything yet. Concentrate on getting good marks in H.S and staying in good physical condition. Read a lot. Learn tons. Study about the military and all that comes with it. Recruiters are not generally scumbags. I've been involved with my Marine recruiters since i was 16. All of the recruiters at the main office have been excellent people and i never was overly pressured. You must understand recruiting is a damn tough job. Kids lead them on for fun, kids play tricks on them, parents are a big obsticle right now, they have to work rediculous hours and deal with lots of crap. If you are serious and educated, they will be good to you. They get nothing out of fucking you over, really. It's impossible to get fucked over if you know WTF is going on aswell. I worked with my recruiters when they visited my school so they could avoid the kids who were just leading them on. I also recieved calls from them when new kids from my school contacted them. The recruiter would ask me if this kid was 1. Squared away in terms of being smart and 'clean' and 2. if he was serious. They gave a damn about who they were putting into the Corps.
That said, if you go into a ROTC program, be fucking serious about it again. Don't take a spot from someone who really would have loved to have it.
You will learn a lot in the enxt couple years. Asking questions, no matter how stupid, will help you make a good choice.

thanks man. :o

[Fubar]

But if I'm going to be entering as a 2nd Lieutenant, I would be respected.
BWAHAHAHAHAH !!!111



ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah that made my day :D

[gYmBaG]

Thats my take on it too. Thats another reason why i enlisted my senior year.....
wow are you fucking kidding me? so what? i have fucking respect for this country, im not baking out, im still doing it, and yeah i signed a paper, but its not final till i dep in the second time. ask any recruiter alive. just because i want to go to college, which is hard for normal people, but you know what? i have the disipline to do it, and im willing to do whatever it takes to do that, not many do, and frankly i dont see you having that kind of power. back to the "backing out" part, im not baking out, im one, extending my education so when i do retire from the military, unlike you ill have a degree under my belt as well, thats about 100 points more for an employer, i win there sorry, and so what? im i guess you can say backing out, but im going right back in as soon as i do, not as an enlisted man, but as an officer, and you better hope you're never under my command, because if i am, ill show you how i was "raised". sorry to make this a flame i really am, i just get pissed when people critisize what im doing, especially when they them selves are too low to even do what im doing. half the people that talk shit about what im doing dont have what it takes, and just think they are all tough, well you know what? wait till i command your platoon, 2nd lt or not, i will make sure they pay for disrespecting me.

[Karaya1]

Never said you didn't have respect for your country bud. I applaud you for considering the military. You are still above 90% of the people out there in my book. Not like it matters what i think though. I never flamed you directly either, just used you as an example of what people shouldn't do. There is no debating the fact people shouldn't break their DEP commitment. If you want a flame fight though, get your aloe vera ready man.
Ask yourself why you would go down and sign a contract without following through though? That is all i am saying. You are right, it isn't 'final' until you go to Meps the day you are put on the plane to Recruit training. It isnt final in the respect that your are not breaking the law by doing what you did. The fact is, no matter how you slice it, you broke a contract, when you break a contract you 'back out' of it. I was simply saying to future recruits that may be reading this that dropping out of DEP isn't the coolest thing to be doing. You should be serious and motivated to fulfill what you agreed apon. It should be a 100% deal unless you blow our a knee, or there some sort of crisis that hits you or your family, Ect. The DEP is to prepare RECRUITS for recruit training. Not to take advantage of free barbaques, fishing trips and then say, Well fuck, i think i am going to go to college after all guys. Cya. Hey, you can justify what you did however you like. It doesn't necessarily make you a 'pussy' or a coward. I said nothing of the sort. I am telling future recruits that if they DEP up, they should be 100% committed. If you are not you are wasting your recruiters time, effort and the government money. At least have respect for the recruiter if nothing else. His job is pretty damn tough, right now it's really tough. With all the other shit going on that i listed in my previous post i don'T think he needs to deal with kids who he thought were good to go dropping out of his DEP pool. Makes more work for him and doesn'T exactly reflect on him good either. Attacking me because i am telling kids to take the DEP completely serious is one of the dumbest things i've seen since i last visited democratic underground. Oh and you are not 'still doing it' or you'd be leaving at your specified date. Lets call an apple and apple here. I never personally attacked you. I just think what you did was pretty, well, not cool.

About the whole college education thing, big fucking deal. It's a 4 year degree and there are very few 4 year degrees that could make more money than what i already have. I am fluent in the language spoken by biggest economic power in europe and i have an A+ and MCSE certification. Good luck with the pol sci degree. Remember, i could have gone to college for free two different places, one for sports, and easily knocked off a 4 year degree in three or so because i already have 18 credit hours total. If i gave a damn about money i wouldn't enlist. I won't even tell you about my financial situation. I'll just say that i could never work a day in my life and be comfortable and i will be a pretty wealthy enlisted member of the forces.
Final thing, i don't think you will be commanding anybody without some sort of attitude change.
You seem to really think you are just some kind of tough guy. You think people don't have what it takes and you do? You didn't have what it takes to keep your own commitment lol. Take your 22 act score and enjoy drinking keystone light in college.
Also, you basically said i am 'too low' to do what your doing? Well, if keeping my word and following through on a commitment i made makes me lower than you i will gladly take the express elevator to the bottom floor. No stops please.

[Mystrick]

Hey, let's not turn this into some flames. Keep it calm, keep it cool.

This is about helping Venom.

[GoatChomper]

.....as an officer, and you better hope you're never under my command, because if i am, ill show you how i was "raised".
For speaking the truth? Such pettiness is unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.

You might not have read what I posted above about your troops actually having more experience than you as a new 2LT, but let me put it to you in the harsh light of Junior Officer Reality: you try that on one of your troops, and they will fuck you over royally.....that is, after your CO has eaten and digested about three-quarters of your ass and maybe left a career-killing letter of reprimand in your file.

[Fubar]

^^^yup,

Thats one of those universal things that holds true in all the armed forces around the world(well at the very least western/NATO nations)

[gYmBaG]

For speaking the truth? Such pettiness is unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.

You might not have read what I posted above about your troops actually having more experience than you as a new 2LT, but let me put it to you in the harsh light of Junior Officer Reality: you try that on one of your troops, and they will fuck you over royally.....that is, after your CO has eaten and digested about three-quarters of your ass and maybe left a career-killing letter of reprimand in your file.
well, im surprised you spelt half of those words right, coming from a guy who cant spell homophobic :p jk no but, i know i will get " royally fucked" but honestly, im like this in real life, and im sure it will continue to military, but anyone that fucks with me, will get my end of the hammer, i dont let people just fuck with me and get away with it, they will get something back. and so what, if i just let them do shit to me and get away with it, what kind of leadership is that? im just saying, im cool if they dont mess with me, but if they do, i will punish them

[Mystrick]

That's a pretty bad philosophy to have on things.

[gYmBaG]

That's a pretty bad philosophy to have on things.
what is? to give the people who fuck with me what they deserve? i guess im the only one here that doesnt let people walk all over my self, i give what is deserved, if they treat me good, and do what i say, i wont be an ass, and i wont ask them to do anything i wouldnt do. but if they fuck with me, and disrespect me, of course they are going to get it in return, its karma. anyways im done with this thread, no more replys im probably going to get a warning or temp ban for "flaming", and i dont want that lol, so good luck with you venom, i hope you figure out what you want

[Mystrick]

Meh, just don't let it get out of hand in the military.

Yes, good luck to you Venom.

[Mr.P]

I have no military background, but I'm at the age where a handfull of my buddies are coming back from their terms of service and I get to hear their second hand accounts. With that in mind.....

Make DAMN SURE you know what you're getting into. Once you're theirs, you're theirs. This doesn't mean "Are you man enough?" or any other such BS. My buddy who just finished his tour with the Marines was one of those gung-ho military family all the way guys. All he wanted since I've known him in elementary school was to go military. He was a fat kid back then, but worked his ass off to get in shape during high school for it. He was one of the guys who really wanted to be front lines and had the mentality for it. His recruiter even offered him up a path to scout/sniper training, which as an avid hunter/survivalist kind of guy, he was all about. Well, just so happened he tested high on his technical aptitude tests. Instead of going to scout/sniper, he got trained to work on computer networks for electronic intelligence. Thus, the guy who WANTED to be in Afghanistan was stuck back here working on computers 12 hours a day.

Meanwhile, my Army buddy just wanted to get money for college, got shipped out almost right out of basic as a radio man.

So, just realize that whatever you WANT to do, may not end up being what you do. So, be ready for anything. Do either of them regret joining? Sometimes, but overall they've grown from the experience. Our military is increasingly allowing in lesser qualified troops to make up demand, so as a citizen, if you think you have what it takes to come in and make a difference and not just show up for the paycheck, then I'd love to have you defending the country.

Anyhoo, good luck in whatever you decide, just keep your head on your shoulders.

[GoatChomper]

.....im like this in real life, and im sure it will continue to military, but anyone that fucks with me, will get my end of the hammer, i dont let people just fuck with me and get away with it, they will get something back.
You weren't "fucked with", you were told the facts and I'll repeat them.....if you attempt official retribution on one of your troops over a personal issue, you will get fucked up completely first by the troops and then by your commanding officer.

If you still have that attitude when it's time to take the oath, then your career will be both short and unpleasant.

[gYmBaG]

You weren't "fucked with", you were told the facts and I'll repeat them.....if you attempt official retribution on one of your troops over a personal issue, you will get fucked up completely first by the troops and then by your commanding officer.

If you still have that attitude when it's time to take the oath, then your career will be both short and unpleasant.
ok for one, you should clear it up next time if you were talkin about personal issues, cause i was talkin about in general, if someone in a lower rank disrespects me, of course they will get something to remind them of my rank. im not saying, if someone fucks with me, im going to wait for them and give them payback when they join the military :p sorry i guess we both just got confused

[Mr.P]

A good thing to keep in mind:

In the military, except for one person and one person only, they're is ALWAYS someone above you to fuck you too.

[psycho chicken]

cause i was talkin about in general, if someone in a lower rank disrespects me, of course they will get something to remind them of my rank.

You have to earn respect you know, you can't force it.

[Fubar]

yeah your never going to be able to stop them from laughing at you behind your back or bitching about you, infact they will always bitch about you regardless if you have there respect or not

[gYmBaG]

well no shit lol, this all comes back to, if you guys were paying attention which i highly doubt, that way i treat them, if they are cool and dont give me shit, i will be cool, and let them have fun, and give them some slack, if they want to be an ass and disrespect me, i will be an ass too. its the general rule of karma, they will get back whatever they give. so what if they will "laugh at me behind my back" when the serious shit ( war ) comes, oh well when we go there i should say, they wont be doing that anymore, because the slightest break in the teamwork, will result in someone getting hurt or even killed. anyways last post bye

[GoatChomper]

.....if someone in a lower rank disrespects me, of course they will get something to remind them of my rank.
No, you won't. Under UCMJ, administrative punishment is deliverable only by an O3 or higher.

[SWATJester_os]

I think he was referring to a smoking.