"(Global) warming hits tipping point"

[Bone_Vulture]

Article by Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1546824,00.html)

Siberia feels the heat It's a frozen peat bog the size of France and Germany combined, contains billions of tonnes of greenhouse gas and, for the first time since the ice age, it is melting

If I could commit crime and get away clean, I'd slice open the next idiot who claims that what is happening to the planet is not influenced by the human population.

But, this is the internet so we can have a.. civilized debate on the topic. :rolleyes:

[ScAvenger001]

Uh, wow, "I'll slice you in half for expressing an opposing viewpoint" doesn't seem like a good way to start, as you say, a civilized debate.

[Bone_Vulture]

Take it figuratively.. since there is no perfect crime.

Honestly, I want to hear opposing opinions. I've been feeling frustrated lately, that's all. ;)

[Bobo*the*Clown]

So...when was that ice age he referenced? And what's the planet been doing for the last 10,000 years or so? Hey...whatever happened to the big mo'fo of a glacier that covered most of the center of the US and Canada? Wait...it melted didn't it? OMG! America's auto emissions melted the giant fucking glacier! Bastards!

Oh wait...it melted before we could even write or really do anything besides grunt and run from bears. So that one wasn't our fault..but all the rest is-right.?

Is this caused by the human population? Not entirely. We've been warming up for 10,000 years and we'll continue to warm until something changes and forces us back into another ice age. It's cyclical. Could we be speeding the process up? Yes, emissons do contribute to it. Can we stop it from happening? No more than we can stop the planet from spinning. We can only slow down or lower our contribution to the problem-but we can't stop it from happening.

[Kak]

We can slow down the planets spinning? =O!

[Memorex]

Even a single volcano eruption spews out more CO2 then we have contributed to the planet in all of mankinds existance. I'm probably wrong about that though, however with all the eruptions from volcanos alone, it surly does out-weigh the ammount of pollution we have put into the atmosphere. Not pullution.. but the "pullutants" that cause the planet to heat up. Yes, we contribute, but no we can't stop it, and no it is not our fault, if we weren't alive, there would still be "Global Warming", then eventually another iceage. o_O

+ the many other natural things that cause the warming up, is that our fault too?

[Lusty_Muffins]

Bobo's right.

This cycle is most likely neverending and humans are definately contributing, but definately not causing, to a quicker coming iceage.

I kinda of feel lucky, to be honest. To be living in a time where everything's happening. If that permafrost cap melts and releases that methane in the time-span of 20 or 30 years then that means I'll still be alive to witness the climb of global temperatures and change in the world's....everything (economy, population, agriculture, etc.). Call me a saddist but I think change is a humbling experience. Even if it kills. Maybe after/if we survive the next iceage we won't be such mongs about pollution and such on the next comearound.

[-V-]

What can I say? Flee to Mars! :p

Seriosly though, I would say in light of all the stuff that I have read we propably are speeding the rate of global warming, but it is still a natural process that goes on with or without our interfearence. The thing that I am most interested to see, if it comes about or not, is that global warming is supposed to trigger another ice-age and turn France into siberia.

[nyarlathotep]

"This is a big deal because you can't put the permafrost back once it's gone.

has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age.

So wait, it wasn't there before? Kooky.

Can't we use the methane to fuel our megaSUVs?

[GoatChomper]

What can I say? Flee to Mars!
Can't do it.....some bunch living in a desert insists on overgrazing and overprocreating, so because perfection hasn't been reached on Earth we're not allowed off.

[Violin]

Im not sure about you guys, but me living in the Ohio northern KY area, ive noticed hotter summers over the pass 10 years. Im thinking a 10 degree difference.

[Speed_Limit]

Assuming that humans are a major contributor and that greenhouse gasses are causing increased temperatures, the destruction of oxygen-producing plankton, the rising sea-level, etc, the scarcity of oil by the 2050s should bring about a bigger rise in eco-friendly products (obviously not enough to stop global warming, but still a vast improvement).

Is it really something to worry about deeply? What about in 50 years?

[Bone_Vulture]

Even a single volcano eruption spews out more CO2 then we have contributed to the planet in all of mankinds existance. I'm probably wrong about that though, however with all the eruptions from volcanos alone, it surly does out-weigh the ammount of pollution we have put into the atmosphere.

That's quite a jump from the last claim that a single volcanic eruption outweighs America's annual emissions. Are there some generally accepted figures to be seen somewhere?

So wait, it wasn't there before? Kooky.

Can't we use the methane to fuel our megaSUVs?

That's sarcasm, right?

[Bone_Vulture]

About the volcano emissions... (http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html)

Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons). Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!

Reliable data? This is just one source though.. could even be evil LIEberal propaganda. :eek:

[kreket]

100 % of climate experts agree on that humans consumption and production causes climate change.

Those that doesn't simply are not experts beyond having the backing of an oil tycoon in denial. And now I'm being kind to them.

[pro kossu]

Can't do it.....some bunch living in a desert insists on overgrazing and overprocreating, so because perfection hasn't been reached on Earth we're not allowed off.

So we fix global warming by sending 10 men to mars?

[GoatChomper]

So we fix global warming by sending 10 men to mars?
A non-sequitur and not surprising, as the two have squat to do with each other.

Call me odd, but I don't think an endeavor has to be aimed at ending any particular problem to be permissable.

[kreket]

Goat, no need to take a whack at farmers for ending up with a desert.

Farmland areas are at risk of dying as output, because of drought and erosions. A sad result from climate change. Imagine Southern Europe's output loose just one fifth of present capacity. Scary, eh? There are some serious scientists fearing this.

[[Political] Slayer]

What ever happened to global cooling?

[Bobo*the*Clown]

100 % of climate experts agree on that humans consumption and production causes climate change.

Those that doesn't simply are not experts beyond having the backing of an oil tycoon in denial. And now I'm being kind to them.

Uh...no. The scientists that believe human concumption and production cause climate change should be thrown into a volcano or tossed into a crevass on a glacier.

The climate on earth has NEVER been stable for any geologically long period of time. It's cyclical between warm and cold; the continents have drifted, the magnetic poles have switched and shifted, astroids have impacted and created huge catastrophic changes-the ONE thing that has not occurred is a static or unchanging climate. Even within the confines of recorded history, there have been extended periods of cooling and heating-it's the nature of our planet.

Do consumption and production contribute and/or accelerate the climactic conditions? Of course they do! Do they CAUSE them? No!

[Bobo*the*Clown]

Goat, no need to take a whack at farmers for ending up with a desert.

Farmland areas are at risk of dying as output, because of drought and erosions. A sad result from climate change. Imagine Southern Europe's output loose just one fifth of present capacity. Scary, eh? There are some serious scientists fearing this.

It's not only climate change that affects farmland...mismanagement of land has done far more to destroy usable land than climate change has. Read up on the forests that use to cover north Africa-you know...where there is only desert now. Clear cut by man to create farmland, yet once the trees were removed there was no protection for the soil from the wind and the sun. Desert scrub was the result. And that happened long before man discovered the term 'climate change'.

[kreket]

Climate expertise:

Yes, human activities contribute to climate change. I never said they were the ONLY cause.

Farmland:

Mismanagement of resources is an issue still present today. Now, if you believe that drought does not cause problems and if you have a miraculous way of turning the desert when the wind brings it across the land, do feel free to share it with us.

[Kak]

Are these heatwaves across the country (USA) from Global Warming?

[-V-]

They could be. Some places heat up others cool down, but the overall average temperature is still going up, no matter what some people would perfer to believe.

[Bone_Vulture]

Goddamnit, I can't believe this shit. (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2005-08-11-global-warming-data_x.htm)

Satellite and weather-balloon research released Friday removes a last bastion of scientific doubt about global warming, researchers say.

Surface temperatures have shown small but steady increases since the 1970s, but the tropics had shown little atmospheric heating — and even some cooling. Now, after sleuthing reported in three papers released by the journal Science, revisions have been made to that atmospheric data.

[...]

Essentially, the satellites were increasingly reporting nighttime temperatures as daytime ones, leading to a false cooling trend. The team also found a math error in the calculations.

Amateuristic errors like this... Sheesh.

[Kak]

They could be. Some places heat up others cool down, but the overall average temperature is still going up, no matter what some people would perfer to believe.
Yeah it sucks to know so many people have died because of it :(

[-V-]

Yeah it sucks to know so many people have died because of it :(
Wait...come again?

[[Political] Slayer]

Goddamnit, I can't believe this shit. (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2005-08-11-global-warming-data_x.htm)



Amateuristic errors like this... Sheesh.

Somebody needs to stop believing everything the media says.

[-V-]

Slayer']Somebody needs to stop believing everything the media says.
Yes, because all the quotes/statments by various climatologists at universities ranging from University of Alabama to Yale University cited in that article is all a bunch of media scare-mongering. :rolleyes:

[[Political] Slayer]

Yes, because all the quotes/statments by various climatologists at universities ranging from University of Alabama to Yale University cited in that article is all a bunch of media scare-mongering. :rolleyes:
20 years ago, they were bitching about how the earth is rapidly cooling and we were headed into an ice age, now they are bitching about how the earth is rapidly heating and because it only being .6 degrees hotter than it was 100 years ago, 27,000 people died:rolleyes:

[-V-]

I guess the:
Global warming's pace over the past 30 years has actually been quite slow, a total increase of about 1 degree Fahrenheit. It is predicted to accelerate in this century.
I wonder, did you at all even bother to so much as glance over that article?

Also keep in mind, global temperatures go up->ice caps melt->New Ice Age->Kansas becomes like Canada.

Also what are you all refering to with the global warming and people dying...?

[[Political] Slayer]

I guess the:

I wonder, did you at all even bother to so much as glance over that article?

Also keep in mind, global temperatures go up->ice caps melt->New Ice Age->Kansas becomes like Canada.

Also what are you all refering to with the global warming and people dying...?

Apparently, with the 27,000 deaths in Europe last year, it was because of global warming. The way I see it is global warming is natural, and they don't know any better, these are the same people who come up with the way weather works, and anyone who work depends on the weather knows how unreliable they are. I will believe it when I see it.

[Kak]

Wait...come again?
On the news there have been thousands of heat related deaths in the world, and hundreds in America. :(

I was talking about the heatwave, not global warming in general.

[Bone_Vulture]

Slayer']Somebody needs to stop believing everything the media says.

You mean what the LIEberal media says? :rolleyes:

[[Political] Slayer]

no, not neccessarily, I even take Fox News with a grain of salt. The media is just out there to get good ratings, they don't give a shit whether or not what they are saying is true, look at Dan Rather. Untill I see that my town is submerged in 20 feet of water, I don't believe it is ever going to happen.

[vecdran]

Thirty years ago people were jumping up and down about global cooling, global warming is just another fad.

[FaKToR]

Thirty years ago people were jumping up and down about global cooling, global warming is just another fad.
That might be reason to be skeptical, total dismissal seems a bit premature.

[vecdran]

That might be reason to be skeptical, total dismissal seems a bit premature.

I believe this is just a global "sine wave" trend. I may or may not be wrong, but that's just my opinion.

[-V-]

I'll say this and its actually fairly in line with what has been stated a few times in this thread, actually:

Is global warming happening? Yes, and its absolute lunacy to ignore that fact.

Are human actions speeding it up? Looking at the US Geological Survey Data, I would have to say so..

Is it a real threat/problem? In the next 30 years propably not, next 100 I would start to worry.

Would I like to flee to mars some time before that? YESSS!!

[nyarlathotep]

Also keep in mind, global temperatures go up->ice caps melt->New Ice Age->Kansas becomes like Canada.

Wait, there was an old ice age?? KOOKYCRISP.

So the plan is to stop all climate change, put the earth on hold if you will? That'd be an impressive feat, with or without humans.